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Welcome to the Community Call Podcast.
I am Melissa Travers, Director of Community here at BevNET & NOSH, here with my co-host Jackie Brugliera, and two special guests, Oscar and Arthur Travers.
My sons.
If you're enjoying the show, please follow and review us on Apple Podcasts, or your listening platform of choice.
Jackie, great to see you as always.
And boys, thank you so much for joining me.
In a little bit, we're gonna get to some key important details about what kids are eating these days.
So thanks for joining us.
Let's start off though with Jackie.
This is the Community Call Podcast.
We gotta talk about community.
What's going on in the West Coast?
We have a lot in the works over here in San Diego.
We're gonna have a busy September.
We are going to be having a meetup here in our WCB or West Coast branch office.
It's gonna be taking place on Wednesday, September 25th from 5pm to 7pm.
We are collaborating with Naturally San Diego again.
And we're also gonna have the entire crew from Taste Radio over here.
So John Craven, Ray Latif, Mike Schneider, myself, as well as the San Diego team.
So please check that out.
It will be at bevnet.com/events.
You can go there, register.
It is free to attend and we will be having sampling.
Also have some really great tasty pizza there, ready to consume.
So please check it out.
We'll also have an event prior to NBWA, which is also taking place in San Diego.
So that's for our beer community constituents.
That will be happening at the Lost Abbey in downtown, their church location, which is a really cool venue if you haven't been there before.
And that will be from 4 p.m.
to 6 p.m.
That is also free to attend and you can drink some tasty beer and have some snacks.
Well, I think you'd be an absolute fool not to check those out if you're on the West Coast.
Is this the legendary pizza, the pizza that I've heard so much about?
Yeah, we have it every time because people love it.
It's urban pizza.
So if you're a San Diego local, you know what I'm talking about.
I'm going to see if Mike or Craven can bring some back for me.
Thanks, Jackie.
And then I'll post all that information in our Slack community as well, slack.bevnet.com.
Head over there, we'll give you a rundown on all of the events and how to sign up for them.
Thanks, Jackie.
That sounds like a really great September.
Very exciting.
Well, I have in front of me this product by Laxme Hyermath.
These are Laxme Delight Flaxseed Spreads.
There are three skews that I have here.
There's one savory, which is sun-dried tomato.
And then I have a Dayton Orange and Ginger and Honey.
These are single serve squeeze packs of ground flax.
It's such an interesting concept.
Flax, you know, we've all heard how great flaxseeds are for you.
And Laxme actually created these with her kids in mind so that they would have something else to take to school on bread instead of peanut butter, which obviously nobody can have anymore.
Turkey, that kind of thing.
So Laxme, thank you so much for sending these.
What a great idea.
Laxme's Delights.
You can find these on Amazon.
And I know that she's looking to expand into retail.
Laxme is part of our Slack community, which again, you can all join slack.bevnet.com.
But getting these samples in sort of made me think about what kids are eating in school in general.
And I know so much of that has changed and some of it hasn't changed at all.
Arthur, Oscar, what are kids eating at school?
I mean, I know you guys buy your lunch, but how about like, what are they snacking on?
So if you don't bring your like snack from home or like Doritos or junk food like that, I'm sorry, I called the junk food.
It's okay.
I mean, to be fair, Doritos are junk food, right?
I mean, if we think about it.
There's like a school store, it's like $1 a bag or like $1 an ice cream.
Doritos, Lay's, Fritos, like normally the stuff you bring from home.
So they have Doritos, Lay's, those are pretty much the brands you see in there.
Is that right?
Yeah.
Oscar, how about you?
What are your buddies take in for snacks?
The kids you do bring their own lunch.
They usually have like, sometimes they have like skinny pop popcorn or something.
That's pretty popular in my school.
Some kids bring those like kind bars.
Some kids bring Z bars.
I've seen a lot of like those like feastables bars that Mr.
Beast makes.
Oh yeah.
I've seen a good amount of those.
Yeah.
Mr.
Beast has actually come up in a few of our conversations.
This is our opportunity to really like get into the minds of the core consumer.
Is that, are Mr.
Beast feastables, are those chocolate bars like, are they cool?
Yeah, but you don't really see them like every day.
But like when somebody does come in, it's usually like the mooch food of the school.
Like everybody's like, can I have some?
Can I have some?
I don't know if it's because it's from Mr.
Beasters, because it's chocolate.
I was going to ask that because I remember back in the day, if someone had something tasty, you would always like barter.
Yeah.
I'll trade you this, if you give me that.
What are the top three things that you would barter for?
Like sweet over salty for some of the kids because you don't really bring in ice cream to school.
Yeah.
I like cookies or something, but Doritos are more common, so the common currency.
Okay.
Common currency.
I like this.
I used to have these cinnamon coffee cakes.
Did you ever have those little snacks?
I think they're made by Hostess or something like that.
When I went to school, I always came in a two-pack, so I'd save one for myself, and then I'd trade one off for something else.
My top snack is popcorn, so I was always looking for popcorn.
I worked in a mail sorting factory for a very short period of time, and there was this one woman who would always get an iced honey bun for our 10 a.m.
coffee break, and she would chew their mouth open.
When I think of iced honey buns, I always think of what they look like mashed up in that woman's mouth.
Anyways, what's the best flavor of Dorito?
Are the super spicy ones, is that what kids like or is it Cool Ranch or what?
They're making a lot of new random things like spicy chili.
I don't even know what those are.
In my opinion, it's Cool Ranch.
It's like the first one.
Yeah.
Classic.
I do like the Cool Ranch ones.
I've tried the chili ones.
They're disgusting.
They're not good.
Like, I don't know, they taste really bad.
I don't know.
There's something about them that I just don't like.
When there's a new flavor, is it like you gotta hop on it and try it right away?
Is that like cool?
They're not really at the store that I was talking about in middle school.
I don't really feel an intention to get the new one because the original ones are just better, in my opinion.
I remember a lot of kids used to bring those little bites, those little muffins, tiny muffins, and these packs.
Yeah, those are usually really popular in my school.
Oh, interesting.
Any particular flavor, like blueberry or chocolate chip or anything?
They recently made one.
It's apple pie flavored.
It's like an apple crisp on like, but it's got like the muffin, and there's like apple crisp on the top of it.
What about prime?
Is that something that you still see kids bringing in and maybe bartering for?
I mean, you can't really share a drink because that's a little tougher to share, because you'd have to pour it into a glass before you drink from it.
You're giving up the whole thing.
There's not much sharing a drink.
Jackie, besides the iced honey buns, what else were the things that you would bring into school and that you would barter for?
Yeah, I loved a good lunchable, especially the pizza ones randomly.
I just loved playing with my food.
So that was a big deal for me.
And then I always had smart food because I loved cheesy popcorn.
And then cheese sticks, actually.
I was just a big cheese fan.
I remember Kudos Bars and I actually heard the CPG Week team talking about Kudos Bars.
But man, those were delicious.
And any of the Keebler cookies, the Keebler fudge stripes were really good.
And then the Chips Ahoy cookies with M&Ms in them.
Basically, if my mom had a coupon, then we would get it.
All right, boys, I have one last question for you.
Aria, you tried the Liquid Death and Van Leeuwen collab.
It's a hot fudge seltzer, and it's a tall boy.
It's a lot of seltzer.
You each had one.
What do you think?
I liked it.
Like it was really good, but it was like the weirdest drink I've ever had.
Like it's like seltzer if you put hot fudge in it.
Like it lives by its name.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with her there.
It's like, I don't know how to describe it, but like as soon as it entered my mouth, it was like, what is this magical elixir?
Its taste is so weird.
Yeah.
Well, liquid death, it sounds like you've done it again.
Jackie, did you guys, have you tried it?
I haven't tried it yet, but we were talking about it on Taste Radio this morning, and Craven was saying that it was a little bit sweet for him, but I could totally see kids loving it.
You know, I tried it, and it was room temperature too, and I was expecting not to like it, but it actually made me kind of think of a chocolate egg cream in a way.
I thought it was pretty tasty.
Well, certainly school snacks and on-the-go snacking in general are a significant need state in CPG that sees constant innovation, and innovation is what drives the conversation in this episode of Community Call.
Kimberly Lau, founder of Bake Me Healthy's upcycled baking mixes is a valued member of our BevNET & NOSH Community, and she's working on a new line of products to launch.
We brought in Robyn Carter, founder and CEO of Jump Rope Innovation, to help Kimberly figure out what her next innovation should be based on her current product market fit and what's resonating with her core customers.
Please enjoy.
Have you joined the BevNET & NOSH Slack channel yet?
It's where food and beverage professionals come together to support each other.
Stay connected, find answers to your questions, and learn about upcoming industry events.
Join at slack.bevnet.com.
We have a great community call today.
I was just recently chatting with Kimberly Lau of Bake Me Healthy.
Bake Me Healthy is of course an allergen-friendly, upcycled and plant-based baking mix brand.
So I was talking to Kimberly, she let me know that she was thinking about launching a new product line, and so we decided to do a community call about it.
To help, we brought in Robyn Carter, founder and CEO of Jump Rope Innovation.
Robyn works with both industry giants and emerging brands, and she kindly offered to help guide us through some of the strategy involved in refining brand identity and achieving product market fit for a successful product launch.
Kimberly and Robyn, it is such a pleasure to have you here today.
It was so much fun getting ready for this show, and I had the opportunity to watch the process as well.
So Kimberly, let's start off with you.
Could you tell us how long has Bake Me Healthy been a brand in the world?
What was the impetus?
And why are you thinking about launching a new item or line right now?
Thanks, Melissa.
So Bake Me Healthy is one year old.
We celebrated our one-year birthday this past May.
So we're a new early stage startup.
I launched Bake Me Healthy because about 13 years ago, I became a new mom.
And while I was basking in this newly found motherhood, I was having health issues.
And after about six months of seeing GI doctors, I discovered that I had become lactose and egg intolerant from my pregnancy.
And so I had to adjust my cooking and my baking to accommodate this new dietary restriction.
And then in 2020, I became high risk for breast cancer and my oncologist advised eliminating soy from my diet.
So yet again, I had to accommodate my cooking and baking for this new restriction.
And along the way, I've discovered that baking should be inclusive.
Anyone should be able to bake and enjoy and indulge in a brownie without fear of what I'll do to their bodies.
And so I launched Bake Me Healthy so everyone and anyone can bake and enjoy.
And we have four baking mixes to date.
And as I've been doing in-store demos and events, I've done almost 100 in-store demos to date.
I've really used this as an opportunity to understand what the consumer is looking for.
And what I've heard is that people want to enjoy brownies and sweet treats, but they don't have the time to bake.
And I don't blame them.
I mean, I know we're all running at the speed of liberal, like in a hamster wheel, trying to keep up.
People want to enjoy treats, but just don't have the time to bake.
And I get that.
And so we are looking at expanding into a new market.
And we spoke about Melissa, she's trying to understand what that should be, what market or what category consumers are really looking forward to indulge in a better free treat.
certainly anyone who's either launching for the first time or they're doing a subsequent launch is thinking a lot of the same things that you are and asking a lot of the same questions.
So I think this will be useful for a range of folks.
Robyn Carter, thank you so much for joining us.
I know that you have a long and rich CPG experience behind you.
Could you tell us a little bit about Jump Rope Innovation and what kind of work you do over there?
Sure.
Well, I'm super excited to be here.
And it's been fun walking with Kimberly throughout this process and with you, Melissa, as well.
Yes, I'm Robyn Carter, our company's Jump Rope Innovation.
I founded it 20 years ago.
And yeah, when I came from advertising and I left to have my son and started something on my own at that point in time, we've grown from there.
We work with lots of CPG companies from the big companies, the Unilever, Mondelies, Mars, Nestle, among others, as well as the small brands startups, which we love and we love helping small brands to kind of push forward into new categories or just to grow in general.
I love CPG because, you know, I'm a little cheesy about this, but I love CPG because these are the products that people use to care for their families.
Like these are the decisions people are making about, what am I putting on the table to feed my family?
What am I bathing my kids with at night?
So I feel like, oh, it's CPG, but it's actually very meaningful and people are really putting thought behind the brands they're choosing.
And a brand is a promise.
And when they are investing in a brand, they're believing in that promise.
And so we love helping brands to understand trends, to understand consumer insights, what people care about and why they care about that so deeply.
The things that are keeping them up at night, what are they trying to achieve and what's in the way of that?
And when we can help CPG brands to understand that, we can help them to bring solutions to consumers that will help them to achieve what they're trying to achieve in their lives and taking care of themselves, taking care of their families.
So I love the work that we do and I feel really lucky to be doing it.
I don't think that taking care of your family is cheesy at all.
I totally agree.
I think it's a really fun and meaningful industry.
So yeah, happy to be doing this today.
So Robyn, you work with a range of brands, as you mentioned, from the Mondolises to the Bake Me Healthies of the world.
What are some of the concepts that you use to sort of figure out the innovation process in a more strategic way?
What are the questions that you're asking of Kimberly and then Kimberly is kind of asking of her core consumer?
The first concept is really just identifying and being really sharp about who is the person that you're trying to help.
Who's in the bullseye?
A lot of times people will say, it's everybody, we want everybody, but yes, okay, terrific, but somebody's got to be in the center of that bullseye.
So who is that person?
Who is that person and how can we flesh them out in as much detail as possible?
What is that person trying to achieve?
What's standing in their way?
So those are really important questions and I think that was sort of where we started with Kimberly is like really trying to hone in on that, understanding that piece of things.
Who is that person?
What are they trying to achieve?
What's standing in their way?
Then we have to think about how are we going to solve their problem?
What is the category in which we're competing?
That can be challenging too because we might define ourselves as a baking mix and then all the other competitors are baking mixes, but is it bigger than that?
Is it snacks?
Is it sweets and treats?
So really defining what is our category, who's our competitive set?
And then how are we going to bring them a solution?
So it's really, I think, first thinking very granularly and tightly about who's the person, what is the problem we're trying to solve, and how are we going to solve that?
What are the tools at our disposal that we're going to use to solve that?
So Kimberly, those are some big questions to be asking and answering.
Please tell us about what the first step of this process was like for you.
I know that there were a couple of surveys involved throughout the length of the project.
What was that first stage and what were the questions that you were asking?
So when Melissa, you, me, and Robyn were speaking about who is my target customer in our conversation, I was like, oh, I'm pretty sure it's like 50 percent women who have food allergies or just trying to eat healthier, and then half of it is like allergy moms.
And that was just based on a gut feeling.
But I needed the data to back it up.
And so I went back and fortunately, when I do these store demos, I try to record data points meaning how many women shopped, how many men who has a gluten allergy, a vegan diet.
And so I went back and I looked at how many of those folks were actually allergy moms or allergy parents.
And then I also went through my data through Shopify and Amazon to see in terms of customer reviews, who identified as an allergy mom versus just a healthy millennial with media food allergy.
And what I discovered was that only 12% of the group were self-identified as being an allergy parent.
And so I realized that my target really wasn't the allergy parent, it was really the millennial woman who has a food allergy of some sort, whether it's gluten, nuts, dairy.
And that helped me to really solidify because originally, as I mentioned, I thought, oh, I'm targeting both audiences.
And Robyn was very clear, like, I can't go after both audiences.
I'm not a Unilever, I don't have the funding as a solopreneur.
I don't have the resources or budget, both time and money to go after two different audiences.
And so I needed to niche down, which was really going after the millennial woman who has a food allergy.
Yeah, and even if you did have the budget, strategically, you would make very different decisions if you were going after the food allergy mom than you would if you were making something for the millennial women who's just more conscious about her diet or maybe has some sensitivities.
So if we're thinking about an allergy mom, and I love solving problems for allergy moms, like I'm an allergy mom, but if we were thinking about an allergy mom, you'd think about what does the packaging look like, right?
Like it would have to look more family-friendly.
You'd think about maybe the size, you'd think about the varieties, the items, like it's going to be cupcakes, we need a birthday cake flavor, I need something for the lunchbox, right?
It feels really different.
You wouldn't put carrots on your carrot cake, right?
So if we are thinking, so that's why from the very beginning, we had to be really clear about who is the person that we're trying to surprise and delight, and what is the problem they're trying to solve.
So I feel like that was a very important decision.
And like many founders, that was a hard decision for you, because it is like we've got all these things and we can do it for everybody.
But to move in one direction is leaving something else on the table in your mind.
And but it's very, it's helpful because you can't be all things to all people.
No brand can, right?
So if we just have somebody at the center, we can think clearly about what is the problem and how can we surprise and delight them.
I would like to point out Kimberly, I think it took a lot of foresight for you to be doing your demos and recording all of that information without necessarily knowing exactly what you were going to do with it or how you would use it.
I'm just curious, are there any questions that you wished you had put on your questionnaire after going through this process?
Or did you ask everything that you needed in order to figure out what you needed to do next?
For the in-person demos, I sort of built it out over time.
So first, I was just tracking how many were sold, then I wanted to do just more consumer research because you can't get that information once you sell into retail.
You have no visibility into who the end consumer is.
And so then I built out the allergies, whether they were apparent, and just any additional data in terms of taste, flavor, feedback.
But I think to Robyn's point, it was very interesting in terms of...
You're absolutely right.
It does 100% matter in terms of strategy because the flavor profiles that I created, not really knowing quite honestly that I was going after really the just millennial healthy allergy woman versus the allergy mom, the flavor profiles that I launched were a dark chocolate budgie brownies.
Granted, it's our best seller, and it has mass appeal to both parents and children, but it is typically...
I don't know about you, but as a child, I didn't really have dark chocolate.
And so it definitely does appeal to an older...
Let's put this, a non-child audience, and the packaging design, to your point, Robyn, I was like, I didn't put like characters on it because it wasn't meant to initially, and still to this day, it wasn't meant to be a kid brand, but it was meant to be just a beautiful, premium, sustainable brand.
And so I think you're absolutely right.
It's just really focusing not only on the audience, but then taking that back to figure out what the strategy should be.
I do want to say hello to Sahithya from Chutney Punch, who says she couldn't agree more with both of you that it is an honor to feed our family.
So thanks for that, Sahithya.
Okay.
So Kimberly, remind me again, what are the possibilities that you have for your core consumer archetype?
You've got your allergy mom, you have the millennial kind of healthy person.
Is that, am I missing anything?
Yeah.
And I would say just like knee ishing down, like the millennial healthy woman, the woman who has a food allergy.
So my brand is focused on being top nine allergen free.
And I think just really focusing on that target audience who has a food allergy because they can most relate to the brand and most desire the brand because of the circumstances that they face.
Robyn, based on the information that Kimberly collected, doing demos and then also it sounds like there was some shopper data that you had through Shopify, that kind of thing.
What did the information that Kimberly shared with you look like and how did you interpret it?
Yeah.
So Kimberly had a lot of survey data.
She had a lot of data from different sources, from her experiences, from her live experiences, from the surveys that she sent out to different communities.
Kimberly tried to as well to aggregate that information.
And so what we're looking for are themes and patterns, recurring needs, right?
Also pain points, I think really important.
So not only why are people choosing Bake Me Healthy, but what are they looking for?
What are they missing?
What would be their ideal next thing to find?
So I think that was all really helpful.
What were some of the things that both of you found that consumers really liked about the product and what were some of the things that were more of a pain point?
So we did, as Robyn mentioned, ran a bunch of surveys and again, being on the super budget-friendly side, this is all free, we didn't pay any survey agency to do this.
So sent it out to a mix of different groups between my email listserv, I have a group of ambassadors, we're also part of a Cornell Entrepreneurship Network.
So just really leveraging the networks that I was part of, I've even posted it on LinkedIn to get consumer feedback.
And so based on that, we had about 100 folks respond to the survey.
And what we really asked was again, like what better for you healthy treat were they looking for?
And so we found like 50 percent were looking for packaged cookies, 18 percent were looking for packaged brownies.
And then really diving into like what are some of the more important claims that they're looking for.
And so whether that's low sugar, less processed ingredients, high protein and also what factors.
So like unsurprising to us, like taste is king, right?
So that was the number one thing.
Good value, I think we're all obviously very budget conscious.
And then really looking at also the occasion that they purchased it and what were some of the pain points, as you mentioned, Melissa.
And so the pain points that we discovered through the survey were high price point.
And I think it's a challenge that all of us Better For You brands face is that trying to deliver a delicious, Better For You product comparable to a not so healthy product.
And using premium ingredients, like I use upcycled ingredients, grains that would go to waste.
I use allergy, purely allergy friendly ingredients.
And so I'm paying a premium for it.
And so my cost of goods are higher, which warrants the higher price point.
It's a challenge in trying to convince the consumer to spend that much.
And then the other two pain points were taste.
And I think, again, probably not surprising to us.
It validated some of our initial thoughts is that, people want better for you, but they wanted to taste good.
And you can't blame them, right?
We deserve to be able to indulge and eat something that's better for you and still find it satiating and satisfying.
And then the last thing that I think we found was that people were looking for better for you treats that were less sugar.
And I think, for most of us, I think that's what we see.
Sugar is still the villain.
A lot of us are looking for less sugar in our diets for multiple reasons.
And so those were some of the key findings from the survey that we ran.
I know we're here to talk about your next launch, but did it make you reconsider any kind of changes that you would make to the existing baking mixes?
For the existing baking mixes, we do speak to most of those brand or product attributes.
Kind of validated some of the things that we knew, but I think it's just for me looking at, is there any way to address the price point?
Is there any way that I can somehow squeeze out some cost savings to lower the price point?
That's something that I continue to look at on a weekly basis.
I figure out how to do that.
But I think, and then just taste wise, since we've launched, I've probably gone through at least three or so rounds for each of the baking mixes in terms of tweaks based on consumer feedback.
So I know, again, people want delicious products that are few ingredients and a moderate price point.
And so I still am working through all those with the baking mixes.
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Before we move on to the next phase of the surveys, Kimberly, could you remind us one more time?
We think our core consumer is...
Yeah, so our core consumer is a millennial woman who has a food allergy.
Fantastic.
Well, let's move on to the second round of surveys.
This was a really exciting piece of it.
Robyn, please tell us what this piece entailed.
I want to comment on one thing that Kimberly said, and then I'll tell you about what this survey, because I'm excited to talk about that too.
I think Kimberly, the other piece is your packaging, right?
With so many messages, this helped us to figure out how to prioritize those.
And when we talked, we said, what is the problem that this category is addressing?
Or what is the basic need of this category?
We're like laundry detergent, right?
Like the need, it's got to clean stuff, right?
So you can tell me it's natural, you can tell me 80 things about it, but if it doesn't clean things, I can't, I can't, right?
So with a baking mix, it's gotta be delicious, right?
So I think this also helps us to feel good about prioritizing that message, that this is a delicious product that also is gonna have these other attributes.
So it's as delicious as conventional, but with these other attributes.
I feel like this helps you to kind of like feel better about that prioritization.
Totally, and in my pitch book, like elevator pitch, like pitches for grants and companies and just consumers, I would always be very functional.
Like we are a top nine allergen free upcycle baking company, right?
And then with this and through our conversations, it was then that I appended it with like, that delivers joy in every delicious bite.
So really honing in and focusing on the deliciousness because that comes up repeatedly from every consumers that it has to taste good.
Yes, yes, exactly.
Yeah.
And I was so happy to kind of see you come to that on your own and to feel good about that.
It's hard to kind of put some things aside and to prioritize when you know all these amazing attributes about your brand, but I digress.
Okay.
So the influencer survey.
So something that we love to do, it's a tool that we pioneered, I think 10 years ago now called ItFactor.
It's our ItFactor influencer research.
Lots of brands work with influencers for marketing purposes.
We came up with the idea of working with influencers for research purposes, especially when we're doing innovation.
Consumers are really great at telling us about their lives today, but influencers are really good about telling us the world as it's going to be.
Consumers are less good at that.
So we love working with influencers for innovation.
So we said, let's get a good understanding of not just where things are, but where things are going.
What are some of the concerns that influencers in this space are seeing?
What are some of the unmet needs that they're hearing about from their followers?
So we did a survey of, I think we surveyed 15 influencers who post about their food influencers, who post about conventional baked goods and sweets and treats and things like that, but also things for allergy-focused people or people who have food sensitivities or who are trying to limit their diets in some way.
So we asked these influencers about what are the main concerns that they're seeing in terms of sensitivities or allergies or things like that, if they're restricting diets in some way.
What are some of the types of products that those consumers are interested in?
So where are they seeing good responses from their followers when they're posting recipes?
What are the types of things that people are really engaging with or looking for more of?
It's just to help Kimberly in thinking about her innovation.
Also, what are some of the flavors that people are interested in and some of the other attributes?
And so we survey these influencers.
They're micro-influencers.
We like to work with micro-influencers because they're not kind of owned by brands.
And they also tend to be in a really tight feedback loop with their followers.
They're truly experts in their category and they're listening to their followers.
So to that point, Sihithya has actually a really great question that aligns with what you were just talking about.
What criteria do you use to select the influencers that you reach out to?
So yeah, that's a great question.
So we have a database of about 2,500 influencers and we're constantly refreshing that with every project we work on.
We hand select the influencers for every project.
And so here we were looking for influencers who post and have good engagement around recipes for special people with dietary concerns.
They didn't have to only be exclusive to that, but they had to post some content around that.
They had to be millennials or have majority of millennial female followers.
And so that was the sort of universe that we looked at.
And then from there, we surveyed influencers with a following of anywhere between 45,000 to 500,000 followers.
Are you classifying the influencers on your own?
Is there any sort of organization like that that exists?
Or are you and your team going through and classifying the influencers so that you know who to use for projects like this?
We do it on our own.
Wow.
Brooke, who works with us, Brooke Stewart, who works with us, had a company, Power Moms Media, where she worked with influencers for marketing purposes.
We came together with this idea of working with influencers for innovation.
And then Brooke actually joined us.
And so, yeah, so we're constantly evolving our database.
We work with influencers across categories and are always trying to choose the right influencers for that project to bring insight and perspective to a specific project.
Well, we're so happy to have you help us out with this.
You were talking about who you were surveying in terms of influencers.
How did you administer the survey to them?
Yeah, so we sent it out in an email blast just to the influencers who we had preselected and in a form with some questions that some were open-ended and some were where they had to choose from a menu.
And we got some great feedback around what their followers were looking for, the types of posts and recipes and products their followers were really responding to, what they would, if they could come up with, if they had the keys to the factory and could come up with a product that their followers would love, you know, along these lines, what it would be.
And then we also asked them how they would present that to their followers.
So how they would bring that to life for their followers.
And to give Kimberly some thoughts about how she might bring that to life in the future as well.
I remember when Robyn sent it, it was like, I think evening and I like was so eager to like dive in.
I felt like I needed a bag of popcorn to consume while diving because I tend to be like a data nerd.
And so I was like totally eating up to the responses.
And it was so insightful.
What were some of the answers you got to if an influencer could create any product?
What's some of the stuff that you heard?
Oh, well, first you want to hear what the biggest concerns were, what people were looking for.
So the biggest dietary concern, people are looking for gluten-free, gluten-free and secondarily dairy-free, and then top nine allergen.
But gluten-free seemed to be something that a lot of people were seeking.
And that was sort of by far at the top of the list of dietary claims that people were interested in.
Identifying that, I think, was probably helpful for Kimberly, too, because top nine allergen-free is meaningful.
But this specific issue within allergen, I think, is, you know, it's particularly meaningful.
And her products speak to that already.
So I think that's probably validating for you and also gives you some more direction about, you know, what to prioritize and what to make sure about.
So that was really interesting.
Another thing that was super interesting that came out is that the biggest kind of pain point is taste, is taste and texture, right?
But the eating experience is the biggest pain point because there are products out there that are gluten free, but they're just struggling to find something that tastes as good as the real thing, but fits within their dietary constraints or restrictions.
So again, prioritizing that taste piece and making sure that she can work towards products that tastes as good as the real thing.
And I think a third thing was that you had talked about and we had thought about different types of flavors and things that are more exotic.
But people are still struggling to find the basic things, like give me a chocolate chip cookie that's gonna taste like a great chocolate chip cookie, but happens to fit with my requirements.
So some of those, I think, probably helps you to refine what you were thinking about and to give you some clues about where to go next.
People also really interested in convenience.
Everybody's on the go to the point that Kimberly made earlier.
People need stuff to shove in their bag or to take in the car with them or to eat as they're going or even to put in a lunch box maybe.
And also the pre-portioning helps, I think, with portion control.
And we all appreciate a little bit of that.
So some of the things that they're looking for are cookies, brownies, even things like croissants and waffles, which I thought was interesting and it came up a few times.
Churros, cinnamon rolls.
So any of those types of baked goods that seem to be, like nobody's cracked the code there yet.
So I think two things that were interesting, one is it's really opening up the breakfast occasion as an opportunity, like an untapped opportunity.
And then also just really validating the need for kind of like pre-portion, grab and go, you know, easy packs that people can enjoy, you know, as they're snacking throughout their day.
So I thought that was really, those were really interesting points.
Was any of that surprising to you, Kimberly?
Or like, what was the most kind of exciting to hear in that?
The probably the most exciting thing.
Well, I think it's really the overall, like it tastes as good as the class, as good as I remember the original to be.
And I know like when I was launching the baking mixes, I was aiming for like from the brownie mix, like it tastes like an amazing brownie, not just because I never wanted the, like it tastes like amazing brownie for a gluten-free brownie, or it tastes amazing because, and yet it's also vegan dairy-free.
But it was really validating to hear that directly from the micro-influencers because they repeatedly, like I think every one of the micro-influencers who responded to your survey wrote back, like I just wanted it to taste like the original.
Because I think texture-wise, especially for a gluten-free bake, it's so challenging to get the same texture that you get from a gluten-baked item as a gluten-free item.
And I think the other, definitely the portability was another interesting thing.
But as you mentioned, the flavor, Sam, Melissa, and Robyn, I've talked about flavor profiles.
And we talked about like for the baking mixes, I had like a dark chocolate brownie.
And they have been more classic, but I was thinking for the cookies, I was like, well, everyone has a chocolate chip cookie, right?
Like who needs another chocolate chip cookie in the world?
But clearly, there is still a white space opportunity there, and that they're seeking a chocolate chip cookie that meets their dietary restrictions and tastes unbelievable.
So that was probably definitely one of the most surprising things to come out of the survey.
I'll raise you one of the responses, Melissa.
So this influencer said she would like that she would, if she had the keys to the factory and could make something a bit good for her followers with food restrictions, that she would make a great tasting muffin or cake that tastes like the real thing, but is gluten-free and dairy-free and includes protein, but without the high-protein taste.
She said, real ingredients are also really important.
No strange ingredients, sugar, alcohols, etc.
And flavor is key.
Use fresh blueberries, bananas, no fake flavorings.
I imagine a delicious chocolate chip banana muffin or a slice of chocolate or vanilla cake that's dairy-free, gluten-free and tastes fresh.
It shouldn't taste stale or chalky.
She said, my audience likes things to be as close to the real thing, but with a few simple swaps to make it fit their dietary preferences.
Kimberly, if this was me, I'd be like, you know, the Rice Krispies lady who's just so overwhelmed.
Like, are you, do you hear this and think like, amazing, now I know what I need to do?
Or, I mean, I'm hearing fresh blueberries.
And I mean, that sounds like a challenge.
It's a challenge, but I'm definitely up for the challenge.
And I just, like I said, I think the data, like it was so much rich data taken between the surveys, the influence of surveys, our surveys, that is just like so many great data points.
And like this was on a really budget expense.
And so really being able to get this insight has been really helpful in terms of crafting what this new better for you treat is in terms of flavor profile, dietary restrictions, taste.
And so a package size.
And so it really has helped me really to refine the concept.
So I think for everyone listening, watching, I think this is not as unattainable.
You don't need a large research agency to do this.
And you can just work within the means of what you have.
But it's super important as a government.
It's just the data, let the data guide you in terms of the development.
Kimberly, that's a great point.
And I think certainly helpful to our audience.
Everything that was done here today, maybe on some level could be done by somebody with a brand on their own.
certainly, recording information during demos and then using shopper data is attainable.
Robyn, how much do you have to pay influencers?
I mean, I understand you have a sophisticated system of classification.
But if one of our founders out there isolated 15 influencers, that they would like to get an idea from, how costly does that have to be?
That's a tough question, right?
Because it depends who you're talking to and the climate and the topic, and some things have lots of food influencers.
certainly, there are lots of food influencers.
If you want to talk about male grooming or something, there's fewer and fewer.
So the fewer there are, the more expensive they are.
But I think that one thing that I've seen work is, if somebody has a relationship with influencers, if you're sending stuff to influencers, if an influencer is posted about your product, and you've been a good partner where you then reshare their posts, or you've amplified whatever they've posted for you.
If you've been a good partner and you have a good relationship with influencers, you may be able to reach out to a few influencers that you've worked with or that you've, who you've had good back and forth with and say, hey, I have some questions.
Would you mind answering?
And they would work with you because I think influencers are trying to be good partners to brands that are good partners to them.
So I think that that's probably a good place to start.
And of the ways that we work with influencers, certainly the most affordable is a survey.
It's kind of a quick one and done.
We do lots of other type of work with influencers from ideation work where you bring them into work sessions and things like that that certainly are more costly.
But this is sort of the easiest and least cost-prohibitive way to access them.
Kimberly, you've collected all of this information.
So please tell us, what did you learn in a nutshell?
Yeah.
So in a nutshell, the key takeaways from all the research that we've done together is one, the chart customer is the healthy millennial woman who has a food allergy.
The new product that we will likely develop and work on the development is a better for you cookie probably along the lines of a classic chocolate chip cookie that tastes like the real thing, and really focusing on the lower sugar, taste, unbelievable taste, maybe even a little bit of protein, and just also in the portability of the packaged cookie, because like you said, everyone's on the run and wants to eat healthier.
Well, that is very exciting.
Any other details you care to share about the new idea?
Will you typically probably start with one product and then subsequently think about what else you might want to add?
Absolutely, yes.
We're going to start with one flavor and just kind of tiptoe our way into this new market, and then just see what the response is.
And I think for us, the next step is really flushing out this concept, talking to folks that are in our network and just making sure that this is what they want, and then also taste testing.
So I think, as we mentioned repeatedly, taste is king, and so making sure that we've delivered upon taste first and foremost.
And so that's really the next step.
Well, we are certainly all looking forward to seeing what's happening next.
Robyn, in conclusion, could you summarize how you saw the process sort of unfold and any tips for our audience of entrepreneurs out there as they may be following the same journey?
Yeah.
So yeah.
So how did I see the process unfold?
So I think, you know, Kimberly started out thinking, I just need to think about the next innovation.
And, you know, once we started talking about things, you know, we kind of had to take it back a step and say, hold on, the next innovation should be dependent on who this brand is now and who we want to be, right?
Who is the consumer where all those questions we talked about in the beginning.
So kind of taking it back down to the studs for a minute and saying, let's just make sure we know who we are, who our consumer is, and what are the problems that we're solving.
And then if we can do that, it almost, the story almost writes itself.
Like you can then figure out, well, what does that person need, right?
Like they don't need birthday cake flavor cupcakes with sprinkles on them if it's not the allergy mom who's baking for her kids.
So I think taking that step back, because I understand the situation Kimberly's in, she's so excited about everything and it's go, go, go.
And it's like, what's next?
What's next?
But because she's had some time, and she's done this great work of learning about her consumers and all this stuff, it was time to kind of stop and take it back and reflect on where we are and what is the problem we're solving, and all those kinds of things, and then to move forward from there.
So I think it was a little bit of a process for Kimberly.
It's hard.
And I think it's a problem that founders have all the time, where it's like, I've got all these amazing attributes of my brand, and it can be great for everybody.
It's hard to get to that point where you're saying, but who really are we addressing and how?
So I think that was really the hard work in the process, was kind of like getting to that point where Kimberly felt good about that.
And then from there, we could say, all right, so what are the problems we're solving?
How do we do it?
What are the things people are interested in?
So I think that process was helpful.
And then in terms of advice for other founders, I think it's taking that step back and having that perspective and being able to be open to the idea that you have to focus, that Kimberly's product has a million amazing attributes, top nine allergen free, protein, sugar content, upcycled ingredients, all these things, but they can't all be the priority.
So I think that's probably the biggest takeaway for founders is to say like, okay, I need to take a step back.
How do I prioritize?
What is the category and what is the job that consumers are solving with my category?
That has to be number one.
And then who is the consumer and what is a problem I can solve for that consumer?
And then the story kind of starts to raid itself a little bit.
You know, it's rare that we get to see the underbelly of what goes into a product launch.
Typically over here at NOSH, you know, we see it when it comes out when you let us know that it's out.
So it's just been such a pleasure for us to be able to join you both on this journey.
So thank you so much, Robyn Carter of Jump Rope Innovation.
Thank you so much for sharing your time.
It was so generous of you.
And we very much appreciated your expertise.
Kimberly Lau of Bake Me Healthy.
Seriously, keep us posted over here at NOSH on what you're doing, because we will be keeping a close eye and we're so excited for you.
That concludes another episode of the Community Call Podcast.
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