[00:00:05] Melissa Traverse: Hello, and thank you for joining us. I am Melissa Traverse, Director of Community here at BevNET CPG Media, and I'm excited to welcome you to the NonBase podcast, a podcast built to help CPG owners and operators navigate growth challenges and build more profitable businesses. Be sure to check out nonbase.com, BevNET's platform made for the CPG community, where you can find this episode and so much more. We are getting ready for BevNET Live coming up June 10th and 11th in New York City. There's a lot happening this year as usual. We've got our main stage conversations, beverage school, one-to-one meetings, workshops, new beverage showdown, networking, sampling, and all of the conversations that happen in between. So I wanted to put together a little how to do BevNET Live episode because we definitely don't want anyone to show up and miss something that they really should be in the room for. Today, I am joined by BevNET's editor-in-chief, Jeffrey Klineman, who has once again gone deep into the BevNET Live matrix, matching speakers, topics, trends, and timing. Jeff, thanks so much for doing this with us today.
[00:01:16] Jeffrey Klineman: Well, it's always great to be here with you, Melissa. And I was thinking while you were talking about sort of running our community, like Bebnett Live, one of the really amazing things about it, since we started doing it in what I'll call 2009, is that it takes that community that for a long time only existed sort of online or in our magazine and puts it in a room together for a couple of days and it was just it was at the time and continues to be this incredible feeling to see and have all these people together after just encountering them as sort of dots and ones and zeros. It's changed, of course, because now we can see each other over Zoom or Google Meet or whatever your favorite one is. But it is something that I don't think I can ever take for granted is the opportunity to see, shake a hand, hug. I'm a hugger.
[00:02:33] Melissa Traverse: You are. I do know that about you. You are a hugger. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And you can certainly see people on Zoom, but there is no substitute for being able to talk to somebody in person and be to be able to talk to so many people in the span of, you know, a few hours. It really is such a nice feeling. And I hear this all the time. I'm sure you do, too. But the beverage community is a welcoming space. And from what I understand, I've only worked in this industry, but from what I understand, that's a somewhat unusual circumstance that even competitors in the industry talk to each other, share information, and it's just such a big part of how and why we do what we do.
[00:03:18] Jeffrey Klineman: Well, I mean, I don't want to overstate it, but if you think about beverages on the whole, like they are something that people come together over. It's it's also, you know, often affected by the the number of functional beverages that everyone's sampling over the course of a few days, especially in the past couple of years. It's gotten really touchy feely.
[00:03:47] Melissa Traverse: Totally. Well, we're going to have you walk through some of the agenda items. But first, I thought it would be great to talk about just some practical tips that we have for BevNET Live, ways to make the most out of the show. There's so much going on that it's not that hard to walk in and just kind of not exactly know where to start. So I actually think some of it starts even before you show up, especially if you're a newer brand. Maybe you haven't been to that many BevNET Lives, or maybe you've never been at all. But to make sure you put together a networking list, we have an attendee list online, we have a networking portal, and to go through and make a list of whatever it is, 10, 15 people that you want to make sure that you talk to because all those folks are going to be there and it's such a good opportunity to meet people and make connections.
[00:04:37] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I think is really important, it's something that we've tried to stress from the from the first day is that we keep a really flat hierarchy, and that means that our speakers are staff. The people who are there tend to want to talk to you as much as you want to talk to them. And, you know, I still remember a bunch of years ago we had the head of beverage for GNC. And it was at a time when energy was really taking off and fitness products were really taking off. And she went off the stage in basically like a conga line. of people followed her out of the room to keep talking to her. And that's, I think, one of the really special things is certainly you can set up these one-to-one meetings, and we try really hard to make sure that everyone gets to talk to at least some of the people that they want to in a private space. It is a community feel to an event and there are people who you can track down and our team is happy to help make introductions, facilitate conversations. We just want to help you connect.
[00:06:06] Melissa Traverse: Just because somebody's on stage doesn't mean that you shouldn't absolutely talk to them, even if you're a very emerging brand. If there is anybody that you do want to talk to and maybe you don't know them and you want a warm lead in, ask any one of us and we're always happy to do whatever we can to help you make the connections that you want to make.
[00:06:27] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, I've arranged long-standing mentor relationships just from people who I know want to meet other people in the seating areas. You know, a quiet intro is, you know, a quiet direct intro is something that I love to do. I think that there have been some really lasting relationships, some deals that have happened, and we don't try and do it on an exclusive level. We're just here because, for the most part, the community respects how hard it is to succeed in this business and that If you're hustling, people are going to respect your hustle and try and help you out.
[00:07:25] Melissa Traverse: Absolutely. You know, I think the other thing that I like to tell people is to make sure to come to everything. So show up at the very beginning, come to beverage school, stay for the after party. It's easy for people's social batteries to feel like they're a little bit drained, but Just for the two days, do everything that you can to get the most out of the show, because there really is so much for brands and operators and everybody else in the industry, no matter what stage you're at.
[00:08:00] Jeffrey Klineman: And we can keep you going with fluids. I mean, we got so much caffeine. That's right. A lot of protein on hand for people to eat and drink and consume. A lot of fresh food.
[00:08:12] Melissa Traverse: Yep. A lot of functional beverages, too. I mean, we've got focus on a shelf.
[00:08:17] Jeffrey Klineman: Absolutely.
[00:08:20] Melissa Traverse: And then the other thing, too, is you and we're going to get into this in just a little bit, but the agenda is packed with some really incredible main stage content. You really have done such a great job again. But we will share the presentations with people. So don't worry about taking pictures, taking notes. You're going to get everything that you see up there on stage. So just sit and enjoy yourself and listen.
[00:08:45] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, I'm looking forward to this one because I know I'm gonna learn a lot. I've never really interviewed a guy like Bill Schufeld from Athletic Brewing, although I have incredible respect for the company he's built, and I think that And having a founder who's taken his brand into such a large national and international brand, having him still in that CEO seat and really feeling like an entrepreneur, acting like an entrepreneur, I think he's got a ton to share both to folks in the beer community and also in this soft drink, functional beverage community that really is what BevNET's all about. We're at a pretty interesting moment right now where the lines between categories are blurring because of what the consumer wants at any given time. And so, we are making sure in our agendas to address emerging categories, things that people are talking about, NAs, Delta 9 hemp beverage category, which is really at an incredible crossroads right now. There's never been anything that has taken off so quickly and may get kneecapped in equal measure. I think that the possibility that the hemp category could be kind of closed down, at least temporarily, is probably the biggest industry sort of penalty box that we've seen since For Loco came out more than a decade ago, where you had a brand that was really, you know, nine figures and growing. while also being really pursued by regulatory agencies. Now here, it's not so much the regulators as it is just plain Congress that's put a deadline on this industry's growth, we're going to be talking with brands and distributors and lobbyists about what kind of pathways the industry is pursuing to stay alive, you know, during this sort of temporary grayout that they're facing.
[00:11:30] Melissa Traverse: Certainly things seem to be changing on a week by week basis, so it'll be really interesting to hear what we hear. You talked a little bit about the blurring of categories. Is that a through line that you think that we'll see throughout the two days on the agenda?
[00:11:47] Jeffrey Klineman: I think a lot of investors, and we have a bunch of investors who are going to be speaking, I think a lot of investors are looking at it sort of holistically. They're not necessarily thinking, ooh, soft drink, energy drink, and even those categories themselves are morphing. You know, the idea of modern is almost sort of expanded functionality under soda, under tea. You know, we've already seen it happen with energy. You know, again, the idea that some products have age gates is always going to be, you know, the big dividing line and puts you in a different distribution class. But I think a lot of consumers are looking at that and saying, I want what I want when I want it. I want to have an athletic brewing with my lunch. I want to enjoy the taste of a beer with my sandwich even if I'm not having an alcoholic beer. Or I want to have a ready to drink cocktail at night without an E. spirits in it, and that's pretty fascinating. You know, there are some use occasions that aren't going to really go away, but there's been a big broadening of the way people treat these things. Even more, it's just created a much larger market. So, you know, in terms of three lines, I think it's how retailers cope with these emerging categories. And, you know, we're talking to Walmart, we're talking to Vitamin Shop, we're talking to Whole Foods about these things. And we have a bunch of other retailers there who are doing one-to-ones. and who will be in the audience to really plan out how brands want to approach that debut and growth.
[00:13:54] Melissa Traverse: Being able to get into the mind of a retailer is certainly helpful for those brands who are looking to grow. And that through line that you just talked about in terms of categories blurring also presents an opportunity for growth. And a lot of the agenda actually seems to ask whether brands are being honest with themselves about their growth. So you have Tom First from CulturePop, formerly Nantucket Nectars. You mentioned Bill Shufelt, Adam Kost from Dirty Shirley, which was just acquired. What do you think these different growth stories can teach founders about building momentum without getting too far ahead of the business?
[00:14:36] Jeffrey Klineman: I think each one of them is really designed to bring out what worked, what didn't work, and how they think about the things that they're trying to do. You know, Adam Cost is a really interesting case because Dirty Shirley was not some massive revenue play, and he's pretty clear on that, you know, but he's like, I created a proof of concept on a very lean basis, and I'm ready to move on. And I think he was, you know, very direct about that, whereas someone like Tom First, who's, you know, super intelligent, super experienced, and also just at heart a beverage guy, has a lot to say about, you know, how you maintain your outlook when you know you're going to get outspent by people and you know that you, you know, if you want to lead the category, you're coming from behind and it takes a long time. And so how do you allocate your resources until you gain enough momentum that people are paying attention. But one thing that we have seen in the beverage business in recent years is that challenger brands are really highly impactful and are in fact the ones that people talk about. You take a Celsius, which has really stolen the conversation, from Red Bull and from Monster. You know, they're still not outselling them, but it's not a bad business to be in. And there are plenty of insurgent brands who are really dominating the conversation now.
[00:16:48] Melissa Traverse: You just mentioned some of the retailers that are going to be at the show, Vitamin Shoppe, Walmart, Whole Foods Market, and you were just talking about momentum. Certainly building momentum at retail and on shelf is very often part of that growth game. What do you think founders should be listening for in the retail conversations that's beyond how do I get on shelf? What do you think they should be listening for to help them understand what to do after you get on shelf?
[00:17:16] Jeffrey Klineman: There's a lot of, you know, how do I work promos? How do I partner with these folks? Certainly the talk with Mingle, with Laura Taylor and with Sam Fletcher is going to focus very heavily on that. You know, she took her foothold, her toehold in Whole Foods as really the first non-alcoholic ready-to-drink cocktail in that space and has used it as a way to debut innovation, to springboard into other classes of trade. So she's developed this really good working relationship where her buyer is almost her board member. And I think that there's a lot to be learned from the length of time it took for her to get in there and how she was able to develop her product. as part of that, and also what that ongoing relationship means. Interestingly enough, we're also honored to have Dee Charlemagne from Walmart, who will be there with a beverage category merchant, talking about how emerging brands experience within Walmart is changing. I mean, Dee's whole role now, and she's a former beverage entrepreneur, her whole role is to kind of be the lantern carrier for brands, for smaller emerging potential high growth brands as they enter the giant maze that can be Walmart and you know she's obviously not going to have all the answers for everyone but as Walmart tries to embrace the long tail that online and sort of quick distribution opportunities bring They have had to move toward smaller brands, just as smaller brands want to take advantage of the opportunities that these big chains offer. At the same time, there's still a big chasm. for any brand as it enters any new retail opportunity, but it's good to have people there who can serve as guides. I think most retailers don't. The other thing I want to say that people should pay attention to when we're doing these retailer talks is think about, and we always ask this question, how does getting in to one retailer, how does your strategy around one retailer fit in with your longer term strategy for a retail footprint? You know, we've had Costco buyers talk about how they don't want too much of your percentage of sales coming from Costco. Um, you know, they, then they, they lose their value as a, as a place that's, that's sort of hip and cool. So just pay attention, be, don't be afraid to ask questions. We're happy to, uh, to, you know, have them texted or tweeted in and I'll ask them on your behalf.
[00:20:53] Melissa Traverse: You know, we hear so often that founders and emerging brands shouldn't be afraid to say no, but you need to know who to say no to and who to say yes to. If you do decide to say yes, you're going to need capital for that. We've got several investors worked into the agenda. Ellie Truesdale from New Fare Partners, Hank Spring from Carp Riley, Morrison Seeger, and I think a few others.
[00:21:19] Jeffrey Klineman: Rogers Healy, man, that guy is making some waves with Morrison Seeger, yeah. What kinds of waves? Well, he's just got a lot of bets spread across the CPG board and he's got a lot of friends and does a lot of syndicating of deals out to other high net worth individuals and if you look at his portfolio, I mean, he is interested in the next generation of products.
[00:21:49] Melissa Traverse: Could be you. Capital is selective, but it's definitely out there right now. What do you think folks out there should be listening to to understand really what investors are looking for in 2026?
[00:22:01] Jeffrey Klineman: Well, what I like is that we're going to get, you know, we've got five different financial pieces in here. If you add those three Meet the Investor pieces along with the term sheet tutorial team of Dan Fairman and Chuck Cotter, you know, they are really there to just offer a tactical overview of how you partner with people, and one's a VC and the other's a deal lawyer, and they're just a wealth of information. They'll be speaking on Thursday afternoon. Additionally, we've got Daniel Grubbs, who's just off his, you know, a multi-year run of leading M&A for PepsiCo, and now he's working as an investment banker with William Hood. So, you know, one of the questions for him is just how well the ongoing brand building efforts sync with the way the strategics look at smaller brands within the industry. I think the answer to that is really potentially going to set the tone for growth strategies for the next couple of years.
[00:23:27] Melissa Traverse: Well, that's definitely one that folks are going to want the presentation for to see afterwards. I also noticed that there are a number of AI presentations. I'm co-hosting an AI workshop. I know that there are at least two AI presentations on the agenda. What do you think brands are trying to figure out about AI right now? What do people want to know besides, what do I need to know?
[00:23:55] Jeffrey Klineman: It's funny because I love the AI piece that we're doing on the main stage, and I was looking over the agenda, but all of a sudden there's like three or four other AI pieces. I can speak to mine, you know, which I think is really an exciting talk about the idea of agentic commerce that, you know, most of the impactful retailers, the Walmarts, Instacart, Amazon, are going wholeheartedly into agentic commerce and being able to get identified by the agents is an incredibly important part of any kind of AI-based shopping. It's, you know, a lot of brands have had to learn Amazon tactics. They've had to learn Instagram tactics. They've had to learn Shopify tactics. There's a whole set of practices that our speakers are going to be bringing to I mean, I think this panel alone, this presentation alone could be worth, you know, thousands of dollars of revenue every year that you either take advantage of or miss out on just because you're, you know, and I'm not as educated in this as I should be, but just basically, just because you don't know the right keyword. Right. And beyond that, there's a big discussion of what things have changed in the age of AI in terms of brand building, identification, and what have stayed the same in terms of making sure that you're at the front of the consumer mindset so that you're there for reordering. So there's a lot of talk about leaning into parts of what you already know, and then what you build on that you don't know. And so I'm very grateful to these panelists for stepping up, pitching it, and I think that there's a ton to be learned from that.
[00:26:27] Melissa Traverse: This is definitely one of those areas where if you are an early adopter, then the spoils are sort of at your disposal. If you can figure this out early, no matter what size brand you are, then you have a good shot at making it work for you.
[00:26:43] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, and this is actually for our attendees, it's kind of a scoop. And I say that because this stuff is moving very quickly. And so your Walmarts, Amazons, they are right now not talking to entrepreneurs about best practices around agentic commerce. They're talking to the big companies. and telling them, hey, you might want to watch out for this new part of our playbook. So we're trying to give you a lot of the same instructions that they're getting.
[00:27:25] Melissa Traverse: So we are going to hear from some incredibly successful brands and founders. I mean, we've already mentioned them a couple of times. Athletic Brewing. We have Trip. We have Ben Weiss from Crooked Pot, formerly Bi. And some of these beverage brands may have a lot in common with some emerging brands who are trying to follow in their footsteps and doing something very similar. There are some brands that may not have a similar footprint at all and be in a totally different category. How do you recommend that brands be able to extract information from all of the presentations, even if their story is very dissimilar, even if their product's very dissimilar? How do you take something away from every discussion that you can use in your day-to-day business?
[00:28:10] Jeffrey Klineman: So I think all these brands are the same and they're all different and just because a brand ran things one way doesn't mean if you do it, it'll work that way for you. You're all a little bit different. And I think that that's actually why folks are willing to share the insights and strategies that they discuss. I have this thing, I might have even said it yet last year, so in the off season of different sports leagues, coaches are pretty open about trading plays, trading formations, trading strategies. And the reason for that is no one has the exact same personnel, no one has the exact same philosophy, but being able to just get a lens on how one might run. play is really powerful. So if you think about, you know, one person's approach to Walmart might be a reason that another brand would never go into a big box store. And saving that kind of money can be just as important as seeking that kind of revenue, particularly now in an omnichannel environment. being able to understand what is best for your brand, simply by understanding the experiences and the challenges of other brands, both on stage and at the bar, is, I think, an incredible opportunity.
[00:30:13] Melissa Traverse: It really is so much about perspective. The more you hear and the more you know, obviously, the more you'll understand about the business. I remember talking to Angus Wittenberg from Wink and he was very forthcoming about exactly how they've done everything and giving advice and kind of you know helping out other brands and I asked him why he's so forthcoming with this especially you know with competitive brands and he said the secret is just hard work it doesn't matter you know like you can do everything that I did but if you don't put in the hard work it's not going to get you anywhere And that really is the secret. And all of the folks out there are working so, so hard. And, you know, I really hope this is a good opportunity for folks to, you know, take a step back from the day-to-day business and sit back, relax, and really just enjoy all of the conversations that are going on at BiffNetLife.
[00:31:07] Jeffrey Klineman: I can have a buyer on stage who's had a conversation with a brand and said, yeah, I'll take you because you're this, this, and this. You know, if a similar Brandt Gehrs up and tries the exact same thing, it may not work. Right. They've already got that first brand. So the point is none of this is an end-all be-all solution, but understanding how that first brand got in lets you build your argument for other buyers in other circumstances. And I think if all these drinks were the same, if all the brands were the same, if all the founders were the same, coming in with the same amount of money, You know it'd be much easier to write the playbook. Instead there are so many different strategies and we see them proven out. in different ways. You know, Ben Weiss is an incredible marketer. He sees the role of the creative very broadly. You know, he is constantly tinkering with formulations, but his brand didn't really take off until he found someone who could understand merchandising. and what things look like in the store to the consumer, you know, in that retail environment. I think Tom really gets that retail environment very well and is able to say, this is why this will sell in your store and make that argument really well. The sort of execution versus vision piece is like the long line in beverage entrepreneurship and everyone can punch up their game in some way along that spectrum and that's why we try and present a balanced program that offers tactical advice to brands from zero to a billion dollars in revenue. We're not going to get everything, you know, I admit that, and we're not going to tell you you're going to get everything, but you're going to get something. And if nothing else, I'm sure you'll get a couple of good laughs out of it.
[00:33:51] Melissa Traverse: Absolutely. Jeffrey Klineman, thank you so much for joining us at the Non-Based Podcast and explaining everything that's going to happen at BevNET Live, June 10th and 11th in New York City. Last question, how long does it take you to unwind from the insanity of planning all of this and running all of it?
[00:34:10] Jeffrey Klineman: We're taking trains back on Thursday afternoon and I expect I will fall asleep at Penn Station and wake up somewhere near the Back Bay in Boston. It's really actually awful and I don't know if you've felt this way doing events but I get kind of angry afterwards because, you know, for a couple of days I'm the center of attention along with the entrepreneurs and like there's so much practice that goes into it and you're sort of spending your time really vibing with people and then afterwards your serotonin kind of drops and I get pretty sad.
[00:34:57] Melissa Traverse: Yeah, you feel a little bit empty inside, but luckily there's always a BivNet Live six months away, so you never have to wait too long.
[00:35:06] Jeffrey Klineman: So then you can be angry all over again.
[00:35:07] Melissa Traverse: Yeah, exactly. Right. Jeff, thank you so much again for joining the Non-Based Podcast. For everybody else out there, thank you for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.
[00:35:16] Jeffrey Klineman: Yeah, can't wait to see you in June, and thank you very much, Melissa.
[00:35:22] Melissa Traverse: That concludes another episode of the Nambase podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review and follow us on your listening platform of choice. You can also watch and listen to past episodes on nambase.com. And don't forget to join our Nambase Slack at slack.BevNET.com for company updates, industry networking, and community discussions. See you next time.
