[00:00:05] Melissa Traverse: Hello, and thank you for joining us. I'm Melissa Traverse, Director of Community here at BevNET & Nosh, and I'm so excited to welcome you to the NonBase podcast. Be sure to check out nonbase.com, the new platform powered by BevNET, where you'll find our partner directory, job board, and press release hub, and of course, this very podcast that brings us all together today. Today's conversation is centered around brain health and how brands, ingredients, and experts are meeting consumer demand for focus, clarity, and cognitive support. We have the brand MOSH joining us in conversation to share how their building a mission-driven protein bar brand at the intersection of science and storytelling. We have Sephora Normand, Senior Brand Marketing and Partnerships Leader from MOSH, and she's going to give us a look at how the brand is turning brain health into a daily wellness essential. Also with us is Katie Emerson, Senior Manager of Scientific Affairs at Kiyohako Makers of Cognizant, a clinically studied form of acetylcholine. She is going to break down the science and its growing role in functional products. From the manufacturing side, we've got Austin Holt, VP of sales at Mecrocap Labs, to share how they help brands bring brain-boosting products to life from formulation to scale. And we also have Josh Schall, president of Josh Schall Consulting, who's going to offer us a sharp take on where the brain health space is heading and what brands need to know to keep up. Well, we've got a full house of speakers here today. Thank you all so much for joining. It's such a pleasure to have you here. Why don't we just do a quick round of introductions so everybody who's watching and listening can get to know you just a little bit better. Katie Emerson, would you kick things off? Would you explain just a little bit about your role at Cognizant?
[00:02:03] Katie Emerson: My main role is in research. So we really truly value good science. And what that means is we have to have the science to back up the claims that we make on our on our ingredients. So I work with clinical research organizations and university research centers, and we get to run really fun human clinical trials looking at various aspects of what the ingredient can do, Um, whether it's cognitive performance, uh, reaction time, sports performance, or even mood. So we're going into some new fun directions these days. But then once we get this, uh, evidence, we get to come up with some fun claims, working with the marketing team, and then we work with the sales team. And then my favorite part is just having different connections and partnerships with brands like Mosh and working with Austin. And I've worked with Josh in the past. So being able to have a collaborative working environment where we get to work with so many different people, it makes my job a little bit more fun and entertaining. And I think it just really spreads the awareness of what cognizant does too.
[00:03:07] Melissa Traverse: You said the trials are, are they actually really fun? Yeah, they are. They are a lot of fun. That's amazing. Um, thank you so much, Austin Holt. Uh, you're next, please tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:03:19] Austin Holt: Yeah. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm Austin Holt. I'm the VP of sales here at Macrocap Labs, where we specialize in bringing functional beverages and supplements to market. So I work firsthand with suppliers like Katie, who are typically like the first people to really hear from the brands when brands reach out to these ingredient suppliers on, you know, Hey, I have this idea. I want to bring it to market. And then, you know, someone from Katie's team typically reaches out to me. I make contact with the brand and, you know, we really start down this path of, you know, from concept to actually having a product on shelf at the end of the day. So, a firm believer in Cognizant. We've been working with Cognizant for years now. It's one of the ingredients that I personally believe in, I would say the most out of, you know, many other functional ingredients. So, you know, really excited to talk about something that I'm very passionate about today.
[00:04:10] Melissa Traverse: Josh Schall, great to have you here. You have a focus on functional ingredients and, you know, CPG, of course. Tell us a little bit about what you what you're working on over at J. Shaw Consulting.
[00:04:23] Josh Schall: Yeah, it's been a long, I guess, 13 year journey at this point, but, you know, I primarily focus on kind of the intersecting categories of functional foods, functional beverages and nutritional supplements, which kind of gets me involved with everybody. here in one way or another, but I'm a strategy nerd. I'm somebody that kind of focuses on consumer behavior and what's happening, you know, throughout the different elements of its demand drivers or change that's happening in the world. I'm kind of always that person that's infinitely curious, kind of checking on things and seeing how that's going to affect the categories that I'm most passionate about.
[00:04:58] Melissa Traverse: I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on everything we discuss. And last but certainly not least, Sephora, Normand, over at MOSH, please tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:05:10] SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Melissa. I am so excited to be here today. I am the head of brand marketing at MOSH, you mentioned, and we are the brain brand. So we don't just sell protein bars, but we do proactively educate our consumers on how to think about their brain health, like they do their biceps or their butts, as Maria likes to say. And we kind of, you know, think about it through the lens of nutrition, exercise, news, and kind of what's happening in the industry. And so we do, our product to market is six whey-based protein bars that have Cogner's Infinity Choline in them. But we do, you know, find ourselves as a trailblazer in the industry to kind of be an ally to our consumers and thinking about their long-term brain health.
[00:05:56] Melissa Traverse: Well, let's dive into MOSH just a little bit. So for MOSH is the brainchild of Patrick Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver. I mentioned a little bit earlier that it's a mission-driven brand. As I understand it, the product and the brand itself was born sort of in conjunction with Maria's dedication to Alzheimer's awareness.
[00:06:21] SPEAKER_02: Exactly. The story really goes back 20 years. Maria lost her father, Sergeant Shriver, to Alzheimer's. And she likes to say, we quote her, the smartest man she knew couldn't identify a cup on the table. And she dedicated her career to learning what Alzheimer's is all about, what cognitive decline is, you know, the root cause of cognitive decline and really coming to understand that there's lifestyle choices we can make throughout, you know, our lives to help decrease kind of the instance of Alzheimer's and dementia. And so during COVID, her and her son, Patrick Schwarzenegger, paired up together to bring Walsh to life. She was looking for something that had the ingredients that she was looking for, the nutrients that she was looking for, so that she didn't have to take so many different vitamins. And she was a huge protein bar fanatic, but she didn't find the protein bar she wanted on shelves, so they created it.
[00:07:21] Melissa Traverse: Thank you so much for that introduction. And Patrick Schwarzenegger is a good friend of BevNET. He has co-hosted Elevator Talk and pitch competitions and everything. So you told us a little bit about what the initial functional strategy was with MOSH. What's the other lineup of ingredients in addition to cetylcholine?
[00:07:40] SPEAKER_02: So we actually rebranded last year. And with that, we included, we made, we added City Choline, which was not ever in Revars before, but it joins our signature brain blend, which includes ashwagandha, vitamins D3, B12, omegas, flaxseed, lion's mane. And so all of these ingredients and nutrients play a role in cognitive function that aren't quite available in other bars. We really wanted to meet our consumer wherever they were at. We found that no other bar on the market had a science-backed, clinically proven ingredient. And so through our extensive R&D, we found Cognizant and our operations team and product development team was looking at, you know, several brands, generic brands, and found that Cognizant specifically had the largest body of scientific evidence to prove its efficacy. It had, you know, it opened the doors for us to make claims that support brain boosting, you know, findings. And so, And prior to that, we were just a bar that had Ashwagandha, Lion's Mane, and we saw that the consumer was excited about it, but they were taking their brain health so seriously. And so we said, you know, we've got to take our product just as seriously. And so we added Cognizant to it, which really opened up the door for us as we continue to expand in nearly a thousand retail stores. So partnering with the retailers as well to continue to educate and provide a product that's truly clinically proven and kind of have that on shelves for them.
[00:09:13] Melissa Traverse: Being able to make claims about the ingredients in your product is so important, especially when it comes to functional ingredients, because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what the ingredients are and what they do. What are the claims that you're able to make because you're using Cognizant?
[00:09:29] SPEAKER_02: we're able to, you know, speak to the fact that it supports with focus and attention. We're able to say brain boosting. So as a marketer, it's definitely something that's catchy. It's what I want to write and talk about supports brain health, we have, you know, evidence to prove that. So we're, we're not just kind of, you know, using marketing puffery that a lot of other brands use, but we're able to kind of speak to those claims and have the data to show it. So One of our taglines when we launched the rebrand was two bars a day to support focus and attention. Each of our bars have 125 milligrams. The proven dosage, which Katie could speak more to, begins at 250 milligrams. And so that's kind of opened up the door. And I'd say it has been a huge part in our success since we've launched the reformulation.
[00:10:17] Melissa Traverse: Katie, I know that you certainly not only work for Cognizant, but you're a strong believer and you take it yourself. Can you tell us a little bit about the clinical research, how that ties into the claims that brands are able to make and how it helps consumers understand the efficacy of the ingredient?
[00:10:36] Katie Emerson: Sure. I mean, Sephora just did such a good job. I'm like, I don't even need to be here. Let her go. And she brought up some really good points. You know, that's why we want good science. We want our partners and our customers to be able to have the confidence and the things that they can say and to not feel like, oh, wait, are we going to get in trouble about this? It's like, well, no, I know we have the science. I know the research is there to support the claims we're making. And like she said, take two bars a day to get the efficacious dose. And where that comes from is what's the clinical dose that we're using in the clinical setting. And so that doesn't mean that 125 doesn't work because it can't and it does. It's just what we used in the research lab is what we tend to reference when we make these claims. So 250 milligrams is like the starting point where we kicked off the research, saw some great results, and then kind of just, instead of messing with it, just kept either using 250 or going above. So we do have studies that go from 250 all the way up to a 2,000, now that I think about it. So 2,000 milligrams is the self-affirmed grasp limit that we use, and we have it in many applications, not just foods. Like I've worked with Austin. I was just with Austin Holt, like, four days ago, I think, at MacroCabs. Was it four days ago at MacroCabs?
[00:11:57] Austin Holt: Yeah. I think it was on Friday, if I'm not mistaken.
[00:12:00] Katie Emerson: Yeah. One of our sales guys was like, I'm going to MacroCabs. I was like, I'm going to MacroCabs too. So it just kind of like bombarded that trip because I love going there. So it gives me an opportunity to touch base with people like Austin and other customers and then really highlight the research. So when I go there, I say, hey, by the way, I know, you know, these studies, but we're actually bringing to light some new studies that, you know, hasn't really been touched on before. We are known for focus and attention and concentration. We're known for mental energy. and also brain health, long term brain health, what does that mean from like a memory stance, working memory, things like that. But we also want our customers and our partners to know that we're doing more, we're going into different avenues, we hopefully will have four studies running this year, we have two active studies right now, you know, looking at motor function, we're looking at new avenues like mood, and how does cognizant make people feel? I mean, and Austin and I are both drinking bums. It's got cognizant in it, but I also have my gummies, which I take every day. So I love, I'm out of mosh bars, but Sephora says she's sending me some. Normally I have those on my desk. I have a whole box. And that's why I love Cognizant because not only of what the research is saying and that we keep continuing to build on that story, but there's versatility in how we can use it. And Austin knows this better than anybody, more than I do, because he's behind the scenes working with this ingredient and knows how versatile it is. So while I'm doing the research, he gets to play with it and put in different applications. So it's really fun to tell the story of how the science evolves, but also how this application process evolves into things like lollipops and new fun beverages.
[00:13:51] Melissa Traverse: Well, Austin, Katie was referencing everything that you know about working with an ingredient, with the cognizant ingredient. And actually, we have a question from our audience from Shahzad. How does this ingredient work with beverages, which I feel like you're probably perfectly positioned to answer. So thank you for the question.
[00:14:11] Austin Holt: Yes, that's a great question. Like I said earlier in the call, there's many reasons to love Cognizant, but one of my personal favorites, and if you ask any of my team here, especially in the R&D department, it works very easily in really any type of beverage. There's a lot of ingredients that say they're tasteless, and then you taste it and you're like, this is the farthest thing away from tasteless. Cognizant is truly tasteless. You can put it into really any type of beverage, whether it's a high-acid, low-acid beverage, and it has little to no impact whatsoever on the taste. Anytime I can go to my R&D department and tell them, I can put an ingredient in that isn't going to mess with what they're doing. The easier that I can make everyone's job, the better. They love seeing Cognizant on the batch sheet. It's very, very easy to work with. To Katie's point, I think another one of my favorite things about Cognizant, Katie teased it personally to me on Friday. I'm sure I brought it up on this call. I'll get in trouble for it. So I'm not going to say anything, but one of my favorite parts about working with Cognizant is they're constantly, uh, doing new studies, which Katie, you know, briefly touched on that. But, uh, you know, a lot of the time, like you find a trademark material and they have, you know, one or two studies that, you know, show some certain type of data and like, that's what they latch on to forever. Uh, Cognizant is continuing to do new studies every single year. Some of these are patented or the ingredients patented around some of these studies, uh, which, you know, not, not many trademark materials can keep claim, uh, a patent. So that's very impactful as well. And, uh, I think that's, again, one of the reasons why I enjoy working with the cognizant team so much is they're constantly emailing me like, Hey, what do you want to see us work on it? And it's not so much their agenda. It's really their partner's agenda. So I think that speaks to. volumes with the company when they're actually reaching out to their customers and their manufacturers like myself, they're like, what are your customers wanting to see? What are they demanding? And how can we structure a study to provide some type of scientific evidence to meet those, you know, wants and needs? So, uh, I guess to wrap this up full circle, uh, Cognizant is very easy to work with, uh, very friendly when it comes to, uh, price as well, in my opinion, for what you get from the marketing side, the claim side, you can add a clinical dose of Cognizant and, you know, really make all the claims that, uh, you know, Katie just spoke about for, you know, under 7 cents a can. So it's, you know, pennies that we're talking about and you're able to add so much value to your brand.
[00:16:53] Melissa Traverse: It's important to point out that functional ingredients like this are unregulated, right? So unless you have clinical research backing up what the product is and the efficacy and all of that, there's really, you know, functional ingredient suppliers need to be their own watchdogs. And that's exactly what the folks over at Cognizant are doing.
[00:17:14] Austin Holt: A lot of what you see now is, you know, marketing gimmick. And, you know, if I had a dollar for every class action lawsuit I've seen for, you know, claims that aren't able to be substantiated, I'd be a very wealthy man. So, you know, able, being able to, uh, point your customers towards, you know, an ingredient like cognizant that they can make those claims, you know, that they're safe, they're protected. Uh, those claims can be substantiated. That adds like, that's invaluable, honestly, to me as a manufacturer.
[00:17:41] SPEAKER_02: When we were evaluating what brand of city polling we wanted to go with, we shared the dossier with our regulatory council because we are risk averse when it comes to legalities and want to play on the conservative side. And they did say it was the best they'd ever seen. So that certainly made the choice for us easy. But going back to Austin's point about it being a tasteless ingredient, it truly is. When we're testing out new formulations, Cognizant was the no-brainer because it didn't impact taste in a negative way, it didn't impact texture in a negative way. And those are two things that were very, very important to us as a brand, because if it doesn't taste good, and the texture is not hitting the mark, the consumer is not going to come back, unless you're not caring for their brain health in the way that we want them to.
[00:18:31] Katie Emerson: Josh, you made a face earlier, and I think I made the same face as you. So I just want to touch on it. Citokoline, Cognizant, and dietary supplements are regulated. So I just want to preference, um, cause that is something that goes around a lot and we'll be keep seeing it in the marketing and in social media that people are saying supplements are not regulated and they are regulated, just not in the same sense as pharmaceutical drugs. So the FDA and the FTC has very strict guidelines that we must follow. In fact, if you, if you talk to Sephora and we get deep into the label and how things are represented, there are very strict guidelines. Especially so foods a little bit more separate, right? So like a protein bar is going to have a different regulation than say a beverage. And then of course, you have nutrition facts label versus supplement facts label. So things change, for sure when it comes to the regulation. But Josh, this is an area that you and I talk about quite frequently is where the market trends are going. Where regulation policy changes are going, how Cognizant and other brand and ingredients can make sure that we conform to these strict guidelines. Also being ethical. Sephora, you mentioned, you know, MOSH, you have a legal team, I have a legal team. We work with lawyers. probably daily. And so we want to make sure that we're making claims that follow DeShay ruling and that we're not going out of our scope of what we can say without using puffery. So marketing is very important, right? We need to stick to the science and stick to the regulation. And I know Josh, when I've worked with you before, when we want to do new research, I'll come to you and I'll say, What's the market saying? Where are these trends going? Where should we be going and where should we be listening to? Because the consumer voice is so important for what we do. We want to make sure we're going in the right direction, not just for big brands like Mosh, but also for ourselves from a science stance. But Josh, I haven't heard from you, so I want to hear what you have to say when it comes to what the market trends are saying. And for my own selfish reasons, are we going in the right direction?
[00:20:36] Josh Schall: The categorical silos that used to be, uh, super clean, uh, and for us to understand what. What's going on. Like it's kind of no longer there. And we've kind of touched on a little bit throughout this is that if we look at it just through, you know, the traditional kind of supplement space. The last 52 weeks of like brain or cognitive health category is kind of flat, but that doesn't really tell the whole story because as this category of supplements has kind of permeated or influenced all these other kind of bigger categories like food and beverage. Then when we're talking about a mosh, like if that is spit into some skin out of reports, a lot of times that is going to go into a nutritional or protein bar set or. You know, we're talking about the, you know, several billions of dollars in retail sales for energy drinks that use some type of either nootropic or cognitive health ingredients or things like that. Those again, get bucketed differently and those are growing. And I think sometimes when people just maybe try to fit into those legacy definitions, they maybe miss the bigger part of the story. And I think it's important to understand like in this particular, if it's brain or cognitive health is that. There's a unique kind of like duality that's happening right now with consumers is that naturally there's a ton of mental fatigue, burnout, stress, anxiety, stuff that's happening there. And that may be, you know, arguably affects everybody, but it seems to be more prominent or maybe talked about more on the younger generations. And then you have, you know, the healthy aging where cognitive health is, has always been important. So you have these two things that are driving. And those can be very wide. So it really comes down to how the brands position themselves. They could either look at different segmentation strategies or different brand storytelling strategies, whatever it is to get to, maybe one side or other, or try to cover a little bit of all of it. But there's just a lot going on in this general category as a whole. And I think that's a really good point.
[00:22:48] Melissa Traverse: Thanks, Josh. And are there specific demographics of consumers who are specifically interested in supporting, I mean, I would think everyone's interested in supporting their brain health, but is it, certainly women's health is a growing category. I'm interested in supporting my brain health. Older folks, what are the core consumer groups that you find are really keyed into wanting to support that and looking for functional ingredients to help them do that?
[00:23:15] Josh Schall: I think that There's a bunch of like complimentary or adjacent areas that naturally kind of fit in there. And as consumers, they're going to really look for things that, you know, maybe appeal to certain things or like, especially right now with, with, with kind of the economic backdrop is that, you know, there's a lot of. people looking for value and that's not a price thing. A lot of times that's maybe from a multifunctional aspect of it. They're looking for things that make sense to them and sometimes ingredients can play across a number of different kind of categories or consumers, most people are looking for some aspect of their brain health to be improved. Maybe that's memory or attention or concentration or a number of other things and that plays into some of these other categories.
[00:24:02] Melissa Traverse: We do have a couple of questions here. First of all, Shahzad wants to know, where can I find this for commercial purposes? Katie, should they just go to the website?
[00:24:14] Katie Emerson: Yeah. The website's the easiest because on our Cognizant website, there's a where to find page and then you can even toggle back and forth between application. But I do know Mosh Bars are in Sprouts, because that's where I go, if you don't want to go to their website or go to ours.
[00:24:30] Austin Holt: You can find Cognizant and C4 Smart Energy, which is really on the shelves of every national and regional grocer. Bum Energy is getting a lot of different points of distribution as of late. Walmart, again, many regional grocers. HEB, if anyone's in Texas. I think a lot of people would actually be surprised with how many products Cognizant is actually in. I believe, Katie, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think AI Energy is now utilizing or will be utilizing Cognizant moving forward in the future. So this is a very Um, there are so many different, uh, you know, different, uh, types of trials that are out there. And, um, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's areas where cognizant can really, you know, play. I think, you know, one of the first areas that I saw it was, you know, the pre-workout category dating back to supplements because it does offer a huge benefit when it comes to focus and concentration. But, you know, everyday brain health, I mean, your brain is the largest and most important organ in your body. It just serves such a wide array of purposes.
[00:25:52] Katie Emerson: I get all my stuff from Amazon, but also like GNC, vitamin shop, places like that.
[00:25:57] SPEAKER_02: Amazon for Masha as well. Um, tick tock shop our website, but there's kind of going back to that multifunctional aspect, thinking of, um, our products, you know, our consumers are looking for protein. They're looking for dietary fiber. They're looking for a healthier or better for you snack. And so why not, you know, support your brain health while you're getting 13 grams of protein or thinking about a snack that tastes really good but has a very minimal amount of sugar in it. So kind of going back to that maybe on a tangent or an adjacent point to kind of what Austin and Josh we're referencing, but we certainly see that with our consumers where they're wanting, you know, other benefits or to, you know, go to a snack that has, you know, those benefits, but also supports their brain function.
[00:26:47] Melissa Traverse: Maria wants to know how Bosch currently approaches consumer education around brain health ingredients like Cognizant and experiential activations to engage consumers more deeply so that the ingredients resonate.
[00:27:01] SPEAKER_02: That's a great question. We're doing a ton, actually, and we're armed by Cognizant, which is one of my favorite things about our partnership. They really show up and provide us with information about the latest claims that we can make, and we partner with them on a lot of blog content. So Katie and her team there have the scientific information and also have a great way of Um, wrapping it up with a boat where it's consumer facing or consumer understands it. So, from an education standpoint, we're definitely doing that on our blog that you can access from our website, marsh life dot com, but we're also in nearly 1000 stores. So, in addition to sprouts, we're also in Kroger. Uh, which kind of under that umbrella is Fred Meyer, Ralph's, um, so on and so forth. And we're doing demos there. We're meeting the consumers multiple times a week, um, doing samplings, educating them on what's in the bar and how cognizant actually benefits them. And then we do multiple events a year. One is actually coming up later this month, but it's a community walk. So it kind of leans into multiple pillars of brain health where we're getting movement, exercise, our steps in. The walk is led by Maria and Patrick. We have community connection there, which is so important for cognitive function. And then of course, sample the bars and give them out. So it's really nice. We do a yearly brain fest. where we bring together not just MOSH, but brands who are innovating in the brain health space, whether it's through sleep or other types of nutrition and movement. So we're certainly meeting our community where they're at and finding various ways to educate them, whether it's through our blog, social content.
[00:28:46] Katie Emerson: So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I will say there's a lot of companies out there that have celebrities behind the brand. But to see Maria out and about, right? I feel like she goes to so many events, like she truly believes in the product. Like, I went to your booth at was it Expo? By the way, their booth is so fun. They had brain puzzles, and they had some guy walking around with a giant brain. And I didn't want to leave the booth because it was so fun and engaging. And you guys do such a really good job from an educational piece, but also Maria was there. She, you know, she was talking to customers like they do such a good job. It makes my job so easy. I don't even like have to worry about it, but it, you know, they have books, they have puzzle books, they have Sudoku. So they really embrace the fact that this product is really truly for brain health. And it starts by one small little thing like a protein, but also making habits throughout your lifestyle every day. So I just love the mission. And that's why we always invite you for things because I think it's such a cool brand and the way that you guys have built it and then how Cognizant can kind of put a nice little fun spin on it and we do it together. So this partnership has always been really awesome to do collaborative work with and I look, I kind of use you guys as an example when I work with other brands like Oh, well, you know, Bosch does this, and we're happy to join them and do co-marketing and branding together. And we just love doing that with you. So kudos to you and Maria for getting out there and supporting the brand. And we just love that.
[00:30:21] SPEAKER_02: Right back at you. I think, you know, it's such a symbiotic relationship. It's mutually beneficial. We feed off of each other. And I think one great thing about MOSH and something that we try to do is bring levity to the topic. It doesn't have to be daunting. You don't have to think about this heavy, you know, dementia or Alzheimer's or that it's, you know, happening tomorrow necessarily. But most people we come across have touched it in one way or another. They know someone who's had Alzheimer's. They're thinking about their brain health. they want their understanding that prevention and lifestyle choices, their daily habits play a role in it. And I think we leave it to the women's Alzheimer's movement, which we donate back to, to do additional clinical studies to kind of have that scientific, sometimes some people think it's daunting spin on it, but we kind of take that levity and a lighthearted approach so that our consumer kind of, like you said, comes into the fold and wants to stay in the fold. And so thank you for saying that. I'm definitely bringing that back to the team and kind of sharing the feedback for sure.
[00:31:25] Melissa Traverse: I love the partnership that you all have. You know, I'm really curious about how Cognizant's cetylcholine works in the body. Is it something, is it like caffeine where you might feel it when you take it? Do you need to build up a certain amount in your body and then you might feel it? How does it work? That is such a good question.
[00:31:46] Katie Emerson: So sitacholine is really cool in that it works in all of our cells. So we have some very interesting, very complicated metabolomics where we did some gene mapping, gene expression, where we're looking at different biochemical pathways. If we're upregulating it and downregulating it, not to get too sciency in the weeds here, but basically it does so many different things, not just for the brain. But when we do look at the brain and people say, can you feel it? Everyone is different, right? So this is such a personal thing, whereas caffeine, same thing with caffeine, because caffeine, there's genetic markers where some people are fast metabolizers and slow metabolizers. So for a universal nutrient like caffeine where everyone goes, yeah, of course you're gonna feel it, right? It blocks adenosine so you don't feel tired, but everyone feels it differently and everyone's threshold is differently. Cognizant acetylcholine is very similar in that. So what I have heard from study participants is even if you don't feel it the way that you feel caffeine, people around you notice. So there are things too where you'll sit down, you'll take your gummies or your drink or your mosh bar, and you'll finish the day and you'll go, oh my gosh, I was so productive and you didn't realize it. Like it's not that instantaneous going, bing, I'm alert, I'm awake, I can go for a run like that. It's very subtle, which is great for a safety profile. cute benefits that you are sometimes feeling in a different way. And then other people are recognizing when you're on it. And then you see these health benefits long term. So it works in such a unique way. You know, transmitting, helping to stimulate neurotransmitters. So that's where the focus and attention comes in with acetylcholine. It has an indirect way of targeting dopamine. So it has that mood. effect. And then of course, it works on the mitochondria. So then we get to see these really cool ATP markers being increased in the brain, we have MRI scans, where we get to actually say, hey, really does increase mental energy. And then overall the phospholipids so that that that bilayer of your neuronal cell like keeping that intact healthy and strong that's going to lead to better memory reaction time all the different fun cognitive functions so it works acutely and long term
[00:34:22] Melissa Traverse: Sign me up. That sounds amazing. Josh, I'd love to hear from you. You're tracking to all different kinds of marketing categories, brain health, sports, recovery, energy, non-alc. Where do you see brain health and ingredients like Cognizant playing into different categories? Are you seeing it play at all into energy drinks, sports recovery, non-alc? What are you seeing out there?
[00:34:53] Josh Schall: There's some natural kind of connection of adjacencies or like complimentary areas that make sense for people. Energy drinks, I think is, is one of those areas that it naturally has there. And I think brain has moved into both of those ones. If it's hydration, it's been a big kind of proponent. If it, you know, if it's that broadening away from just typical sports drinks and into, you know, that broader intent of hydration and, you know, hydration sticks and, you know, all that kind of stuff that's going on there. But then you're also seeing it, I think in some of these more, I guess, nascent areas and like the functional like mocktails, like, because I think that, you know, non-alcoholic beer is great. And I think that that fits obviously a better for you profile than drinking, you know, alcohol after work or something like that. But I think a lot of people also want to still feel something. They want to have some sensory aspects to that. And I think when you're moving. that into a more functional aspect of it. If it's, you know, if it's something like, uh, cognizant or some magnesium or a number of the other kind of, uh, even like mood support ingredients, uh, lemon balms and stuff like that. And I'm not one of those people that thinks like people are just completely. Not drinking alcohol. It creates opportunities in some of those more established, you know, if it's a vice areas or, or, or niche areas that then can move towards some of this higher functionality aspects.
[00:36:17] Melissa Traverse: Well, this has been an absolutely fascinating discussion. Maria wants to know, are Hermosh or most products with Cognizant just recommended for adults who are 18 and over? Are there any guidelines for teens or younger consumers?
[00:36:31] Katie Emerson: I can address that. So the cool thing about Cognizant is it's extremely safe. So it is an endogenous substance, which means we make it in our body. It's not foreign. It's not like you introduce it and the body goes, I don't know what to do with this. We do have an adolescent study where we looked at adolescent males ages 13 to 18 and then we have safety studies and and we have disease population studies where we we looked at kids as I think as young as four years old. So while we don't actively promote it for children or teens, because we are in a space where we can be in a beverage, a food, or a dietary supplement, like I mentioned before, each one of those has its own regulatory body. So you have to be very mindful. When we talk to our partners, we are very upfront and transparent about We feel more comfortable if we promote 18 above, but we do have studies at younger age groups and, you know, like adolescent study in the safety studies. So we've confidently feel that it is safe as for promoting it. We kind of. assist, but we let their regulatory and legal team and what state they're in and who they're contributing to. If they're going international, that changes the game altogether, you know, because then it changes with health claims versus functional claims. So it is very different when it comes to how we promote it to different age groups, but that's kind of the stances. 18 and above, but we have safety studies for underneath.
[00:38:09] Melissa Traverse: Thank you so much for the question, Maria. And last, before we hop off here, I'd love to just circle around to everybody and hear maybe your best advice for folks out there who are helping to build functional products. I know that so many people are. Austin Holt's start with you. What's your advice? You know, it might be a founder, it might be someone working in a brand or service provider or supplier. What's your best advice?
[00:38:34] Austin Holt: First and foremost, I would say, be able to weather the storm. Bringing any type of CPG product to life, it's going to be full of ups and downs, and it's very generic. I would say, really look for an opening in the category. What we're seeing right now is, again, just to kind of touch on what Josh touched on, I feel like the majority of this call, is we're seeing categories start to fragment. And I believe that's going to be a trend that we're going to see, you know, well into the next, you know, call it 10, 20 years, uh, in the CPG space, uh, you know, consumers are becoming. much more price sensitive. That doesn't mean that they're looking for the lowest cost products, but they're looking for the best bang for their buck, that they want to, you know, kill two birds with one stone. I think that's where we're going to start seeing functional beverages and functional foods, you know, really start to go. You know, wash is another perfect example to where, yes, you know, it's a protein bar. but it serves. You're getting your fiber, you're getting other nutrients, you're getting brain health ingredients all in one. I think that would be my piece of advice is find some different categories that you can kind of cross segment and really just don't be afraid to forge a new path. Someone has to do it and that's kind of where we're seeing the modern soda category per se. someone, you know, came out 10 years ago, or, you know, really poppy did, you know, 10 years ago, and no one really, you know, paid attention to it. And, you know, here we are 10 years later, and they got a $1.8 billion exit. So I think that's something that I would just keep in mind is, you know, stick to your roots, if it's something you believe in, you know, go at it 110%. And you have to weather the storm.
[00:40:21] Melissa Traverse: I feel inspired. Josh, how about you?
[00:40:25] Josh Schall: I think people get into this bad habit of thinking if they simply make a better mousetrap that they're going to be successful, not realizing that there's thousands of readily substitutable products that, you know, that, that kind of the super noisy and there's low barriers of entry and, and like just. Having that great product is not going to be enough. And I think that like Sephora mentioned a really great point here, something that I always kind of love is that, you know, you have to have. you know, that bold strategic narrative that really connects all the internal stuff to the external, like all of that has to be there. It can't just be, you know, this product that has all the spells and whistles and wherever, like there needs to be a bigger why behind what's going on and consumers need to understand like, what and why they are buying that and like, is there an emotional connection and, and things like that. So that's my advice is kind of move, you know, you need to have a great product to win in CPG. That's, you know, uh, you know, the entry fee to compete, but I think you have to move past that for that ultimate like winning ticket.
[00:41:33] Melissa Traverse: Sephora, I see you nodding your head over there. What would you say?
[00:41:37] SPEAKER_02: Josh really touched on it. I think it make it make sense. You know, all the dots have to connect and it starts with a great product one that you believe in one that has, you know, the data to support it. Why a reason for being but we like to think about things through the lens of. A 360 approach, so donating money back to the women's Alzheimer's movement, having the product that makes sense, doing things with the community, educating, being the trailblazer in the industry. It's not a narrow approach, it's very 360, and it's lateral, and I think You know, having the passion behind it, every, with everyone in the company, from leadership down to, you know, everyone that's working on it. It allows us to speak to the brand story without having to architect it in a way that doesn't feel authentic. And the consumer is smart. They know it. They feel it.
[00:42:33] Melissa Traverse: And Katie, what would your advice be?
[00:42:36] Katie Emerson: Well, I love everyone's. Austin basically paved the path to something new. Love that. Make it make sense. So simple and true. And then, you know, Josh is like, follow the trends, but, you know, be true to you and have a vision and a mission. So I agree with all of these, but I always kind of go back to my scientific roots. And it's like, you didn't wake up one day and go, I'm going to make a product. Or maybe you did, but then it took a long time to get to the point of launching. So do it right. Have your story, have your vision, but build a solid foundation of good ingredients that's going to support what you want your product to say. Make sure it's efficacious. Make sure it has the science. Make sure you're following the regulatory body. and then get creative, right? Like everyone wants to have a creative product, but if it doesn't have solid foundation, a way that you can rely on making those claims, it would just be very mindful and careful because you just want your product to truly stand out. but you also want it to be true to what the customer wants and what you're saying your product can deliver. So build a solid foundation and then get creative and then all the other pieces will kind of fall in line.
[00:43:57] Melissa Traverse: Well, what a perfectly balanced set of answers that was. Thank you all so much for the advice and for joining today's non-based podcast on brain health. It was so great to have you all on the show. I certainly learned so much. Sephora Normand, Katie Emerson, Austin Holt, and Josh Schall, thank you so much for joining the Non-Based Podcast today. For everybody else, thank you for joining us as well. Make sure you go to nonbase.com if you haven't checked it out already, and I'll see you next time. Thank you. That concludes another episode of the Nambase podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review and follow us on your listening platform of choice. You can also watch and listen to past episodes on nambase.com. And don't forget to join our Nambase Slack at slack.BevNET.com for company updates, industry networking, and community discussions. See you next time.
