Welcome to the Community Call Podcast.
I am Melissa Travers, Director of Community here at BevNET & NOSH, here with my co-hosts Jackie Brugliera and Mike Schneider.
If you're enjoying the show, please follow and review us on Apple Podcasts or your listening platform of choice.
Jackie and Mike, great to see you after Expo West last week.
And I wanted to talk today about what we took home with us.
What did you pack in your suitcase?
What did you snack on the plane first?
What did you eat as soon as you got in the door?
You know about hashtag Snacks on a Plane, right?
I don't know about that hashtag.
When you bring snacks on a plane, you support the industry, you gotta do hashtag Snacks on a Plane, because it's not snakes on a plane.
That's way better.
All right, everybody.
Hashtag Snacks on a Plane.
Don't disappoint us.
And I wasn't disappointed at all by the things that I took with me.
Yeah, you got a goody bag there.
Yeah, I love the fancy bag.
Jackie and I were at the Gorgie booth, and they were showing off their beautiful new packaging design.
Their swag was on point, and it perfectly mimicked the sheen of the new can.
Yeah, I thought so, too.
I packed some goodies in here.
The first thing that I tried, actually, when I walked in the door were Katie's gummies.
They were the gelatin-free gummies.
They're from Germany, which is-
I'm scared of gummies.
These are safe gummies.
I'm still scared.
Anything gummy, Mike, just runs greetings.
That's not true because I brought better sours on the plane.
That's my snacks on a plane.
Plus when I got home, when I pulled them out of the bag, my family gets super excited because they think better sours are next level.
They're so delicious.
Jackie, did you wind up with any gummies in your trick or treat bag?
I didn't have any gummies.
I'm really not a huge candy person, but I did bring Pockets Chocolates Churro.
I have that.
Pockets Chocolates, everyone.
Pockets Chocolates.
And I love your sweater.
Check this out.
They gave me a sweater.
I got that one too.
Did you see that?
And there's a cute little pin on it.
There is, as a pin, there's an enrobed almond.
Like this is the cutest, smartest thing I've ever seen.
Jackie, what'd you think of those of the Churro almonds from Pockets Chocolates?
This is my type of candy.
So it has substance, it has some protein, and it's really flavorful.
Really delicious.
Love the Churro.
What did you like better, the Churro or the strawberry?
I feel like they were super duper generous.
We got, I mean, as, I remember when I met them, I met Lynn first, Lynn Pham, co-founder of Pockets Chocolates, when they were pocket latte.
And it was just like this little piece of chocolate, but coffee that you could put in your pocket.
And I thought that was like the coolest innovation I'd ever seen in my life.
And we became like, you know, fast buddies, industry buddies.
And like, they just keep innovating and innovating and innovating and innovating.
And when the nuts came out, I mean, my jaw dropped, and they just keep making new interesting flavors.
Like, I couldn't have predicted that they would, they would go churro or I guess strawberry, maybe could have predicted that.
But like Vietnamese coffee, the black sesame is everyone's favorite.
Oh, black sesame, matcha.
Yeah.
So good.
Yeah, I like both of them.
I like both of them, but I think I just lean more towards churro in general.
Jackie, I'm so glad you pointed that out because I noticed a churro trend.
I feel like nowadays brands won't say cinnamon, but they say churro instead.
So we have the churro pockets chocolates.
We also have the churro Mary mix.
I got to meet Mary, which was-
You did?
Yes, I did.
She is delightful.
I wanted to meet them.
I missed-
Absolutely delightful.
I'm glad you got to meet them.
Me too.
And then also the Belly Welly Cinnamon Churro.
Wait, can anyone say churro?
I'm not even gonna-
Churro?
No, I'm not gonna try.
Churro?
Churro?
Churro?
You gotta get that tongue rolling.
Churro.
It's terrible.
I can't do it.
I was gonna say I'm not gonna embarrass myself, but that's too late.
This is our, that's what we do.
Right, right, right, right.
I think people want that.
So what do you do for a living?
I embarrass myself.
I embarrass myself.
I'm a V-List celebrity.
I can't stop eating these.
Oh, and you know what else I wanna talk about too?
The Tassu fruit chips.
These are delicious.
What are those?
So these are, do you want me to open these up?
Yeah, those aren't gonna get past this table.
All right, Lorena and her team were at NOSH Live.
These are manufactured in Guatemala, and they dry the fruit out, so it's nice and crispy, and they are so, so addictive.
They have banana.
They also have pineapple, mango.
There's another flavor as well.
I just think they're so tasty.
Oh my God, where have you been all my life?
I know.
That's one of the consolation prizes I give to my kids for being gone for the week.
That definitely worked in the Katie's gummies.
So these are like just dehydrated banana, but you know what makes it?
The texture.
They're crunchy.
It's like a golden gram.
They're thin and crispy and light.
It's like no dried banana you've ever had before.
It is like no dried banana I've ever had before.
On the plane, I cracked into the black sesame, pockets, chocolates, almonds, and the Ziba sun dried figs.
Have you guys tried those, the sun dried figs?
Ooh.
Oh yeah, those are good.
And you know what I love, they're flattened.
Of course, the flavor of the fig itself is delicious too, but the fact that they're flattened is such a delight, and I love their golden raisins as well.
Those are super tasty, and they make for a great little snack, or they're great on a charcuterie board.
Speaking of black sesame, there's another amazing black sesame product by Rooted Fair, which is a spread, and it looks like caviar.
So it has more of a sweet flavor to it, but you can spread it on just about anything.
And I got to meet my heroes, the founders of Rooted Fair.
They're so cool.
And I'd wanted to meet them for a long time.
And then they are at the start of CPG event.
Is the black sesame spread, is it sweet, is it savory?
It's Swedish.
It's not Swedish, sweet-ish.
Is it Swedish?
Jackie, I notice you wearing a large chain.
Is that something that you brought back?
Is that your Jacob Marley chain?
Yeah, no, I was walking around the show with this.
And shout out to Amrit from Indie CPG, she gave me this.
She told me she gave you that.
Yeah, and I had like a different beverage, rotating through my koozie all day.
And then when there wasn't a beverage, it was my phone.
So it was very handy and everyone was asking, where'd you get that?
And I was asking her about it.
And she's like, I gave Jackie one.
I love Emory.
Emory is the best.
That's not just a cool piece of swag, but it's incredibly helpful.
I can't think of the number of times that I was holding a beverage, holding a snack, trying to hold my phone.
Towards the end of the day, one day I had a pretty tasty in here.
Yeah, that is so good.
So then I can just be hands free.
That stuff, I crave that stuff.
It's so good.
Doesn't it have like soul?
It's really good.
It has the collagen.
I think they do such a good job of making it a palatable product.
And they sent those little packets to our office, which I also love as well.
So you can just dump it in water.
I like them.
I think the black tea, the original black tea one, tastes a little too different for me from the other ones to feel just like it's the same.
But I guess that's my quote complaint.
But I love the lemon, the raspberry and the peach are really good.
Oh, and you know what else I drank on the way out of the expo was an Umi.
Umi, oh my gosh.
Alyssa Miki, who is the founder of Umi, is one of the most outrageous and fun people in the industry.
When we got to her booth.
Otter costumes on her own.
She wasn't wearing the otter costume.
She zipped it on for us.
And she just, she's like, I gotta be the otter.
She throws it on.
It was so funny.
She's like a talk show host, star extraordinaire in Japan.
In Japan, yeah.
And she has this high-end candy brand called Mizaki that retails for $75 US.
It's like this crystal candy, and it's like an art project.
Super nice gift to give somebody.
She's full of surprises.
She was a delight.
And the beverage itself, I thought, was so cool.
Its main ingredient is red algae.
And also Umi and Jolly Moss got together.
I know Jackie, like Jolly Moss was, they were zipping around, and they were kind of hard to nail down because they were so excited.
And I finally saw them with you, which was, I think one of their goals of the event was to meet you, Jackie.
Yeah, we were just messaging via DMs on Instagram, trying to meet up.
We were always ended up in opposite halls or opposite sides of expo, but we eventually got to meet up.
Lori and Jack, they're awesome.
Mother and son duo launching their CMOS puddings, which are delicious.
Their first expo.
Yeah, their first expo walking, and they were had it like their cooler bag with like these big heavy jars of pudding.
So like props to them.
Did they have, did you get to try the strawberry?
I tried the chocolate.
Oh, the chocolate is super good.
But they couldn't stand still because they were like literal kids in a candy store.
Like they're so new to the industry.
Their product is months old, and they were just having the time of their lives.
I saw Lori for like a second, got a hug, and she was like off.
Yeah, they were talking to everyone.
I mean, especially as like new founders, they were trying to take everything in.
They said that they already had connections to try and help the shelf life of their product.
So, things are in the works.
Good, good.
Exciting stuff.
Yeah, hopefully we'll join the Slack community at slack.bevnet.com, and they can ask their hardest questions, find answers, and we can help too.
slack.bevnet.com, hop on.
You can talk to all of us, make new connections.
It's a great place to be.
Yeah, Mike, you have some items here that I am curious about.
Well, two things.
One is I met the founder of Coco Karma, and it was strange because she walks up to us and she's like, hey, hey, and I was like, oh, hey, how you doing?
And she's like, I'm the founder of Coco Karma.
Like that, that was fun.
And then, did you get to try Subi?
I have tried Subi.
Yeah, Subi, that's one that I sampled and also will buy.
That stuff is good.
Yeah, I mean, it's a great idea.
You know, it's just freeze dried, I believe, and then you just rehydrate it.
It's freeze dried.
You pop it in water and then it becomes amazing soup.
It's just a magic trick.
Yeah.
They execute it so well.
I mean, you know, certainly we've all tried a number of, whether it's miso soup or other kinds of dehydrated or freeze dried soups, and it's not always done right, but it is a delicious product.
It was also good to catch up with founder of Crooked Owl, Gim.
Did you get to try Pistachio?
It's a nut butter.
I tried it at the SnackShot event.
It is so good.
Again, another product that's like just brand spanking new, probably like, you know, farmers market plus right now, but it's ooey and gooey and delicious.
We also got to meet the founders of Nara at the SnackShot event.
I believe Miggy and Victoria and they are just so fun.
Like, I remember I was just seeing someone pull something out of a cooler, and obviously I wanted to go see what it was and it ended up being them and they're huge Taste Radio fans.
They make amazing products, a line of milk teas.
I was drinking their strawberry matcha, but they're amazing.
They got the DNS sticker for Taste Radio.
When Jackie's giving him the DNS sticker, she turns into a demon.
Like she goes, DNS!
I gotta post that.
You gotta see your eyes, Jackie.
Something else I took with me wasn't a product, but I was thinking about all of the conversations that I had and the thing that stuck in my mind the most.
And it was a conversation that I had with Max Luthi from Plink.
He said he was having a conversation with someone and crystallized an idea that I thought was so interesting, which is the difference between entrepreneurs and non-entrepreneurs.
So somebody who isn't an entrepreneur might think, what will happen if I do start this company?
And an entrepreneur thinks, what will happen if I don't start this company?
I thought that was such an interesting definition.
I mean, they're trying to save the world, obviously trying to change the way that we have beverages in general.
So they've got, Plink is this sort of Alka-Seltzer like tablet that gives you hydration in any vessel.
And Max and Luke are just great guys.
And I really hope that company just blows up at some point.
I so appreciate that they talk about the more difficult side of starting up a business, in addition to celebrating all of their wins.
Like moving from the UK to Vermont and having meetings in a snowstorm.
Like I don't think Luke signed up for that, but Max makes him do that.
Hey, can we talk, can I ask one more question?
Can we talk about like, I missed a few connections there.
Like there were booths that I found out about later that I somehow either blew by or missed.
Like I missed the Mooski booth.
And I saw it, but like Robert was busy.
It was day one and he was just sworn by people, hopefully retailers.
I missed the Irwin's booth.
Those potato chips are next level.
And I also, I can't believe I missed the Emmy booth too.
I missed Date Fix and I really wanted to go over there and have a chat.
So I will have to set up a call afterwards.
You got it?
They have that nice, that super nice packaging.
Okay, well at least you were there.
At least somebody got to see them.
Yeah.
Jackie, did you miss anything?
Yeah, I missed Midday Squares and I missed Belgian Boys.
And both of those booths bring the energy.
So, you know.
They were both bringing the thunder and both dancing on tables.
So I got to the Midday Squares booth, got to try the Crunchy, did a live review.
It's like for Rev1, it's pretty damn good.
And I have, and I know like they're about continuous improvement.
So they're gonna take all the notes and make all the change.
Not necessarily mine, but everybody's feedback.
And yeah, they were dancing on tables.
They were also sponsoring the Midday Shits.
I saw that.
So they put a sign above the restroom and said they were sponsoring the Midday Shits.
And not to be outdone, of course, Anouk was dancing on the table at her booth.
I went to the women's breakfast get together that they threw, which was of course delightful.
And I think Belgian Boys actually had some of my favorite swag.
They had these adorable little branded lip balms in the flavors of their innovation.
There's brioche French toast, chocolate hazelnut crepes.
Then Mike, what's the third one?
Blueberry pancakes, which they didn't offer me any of these when I saw Anouk.
What I did get, though, was a pancake sandwich with chocolate hazelnut.
I would rather have that, by the way.
Yeah, at least they didn't send you away empty-handed.
No, they did not send me away empty-bellied.
Of course she would have the best swag.
I remember her giving the community call just talking about Expo West swag and thinking about ideas maybe beyond just the bags.
Exactly.
I think Ray's daughter probably still has that pancake purse.
We also got to catch up with Alison, the founder of Poppy.
And there were so many brands that were walking up to her and having these conversations and she just kept saying, copy me, copy me, copy me.
And I mean, what a just a giving person who's always been someone who just leans into the industry.
If you need help, Alison's been there to help and she's been a great member of our community and leaned in here too.
And I just remember when they won that new beverage show down at his mother beverage, how far they've come, but it takes a long time in beverage, you know?
So she's like, you know, stick it out, stick to your guns, continue to simplify, which I think is what Happy Pop is doing.
We also caught up with Maya and Dustin from Happy Pop.
Wow, that stuff is good.
It's funny because my favorite Happy Pop is Rainbow Drip.
And Maya says like all the men love Rainbow Drip and the women love either tangerine or lemon.
That's funny.
When you said Allison, and Allison and Steven are so generous with their time and their information.
When you said Allison, I thought you were going to reference Allison Kane because Jackie is wearing an aioli hat.
I know, it was from Haven's Kitchen because they launched their new line of aioli squeeze packs.
And they were giving out these hats.
And I love it because I have my oat milk shirt.
So like one day I'm just gonna have a different-
You're gonna make oat milk aioli?
Yeah, oat milk aioli, you know?
Different pieces of clothing with different things that are my favorites.
Is that like the thing?
So I'm just gonna wear a shirt that says podcast.
So the Zoom team has these sweatshirts that just say Tahini.
I think this is another trend, just putting the name of the thing on the sweatshirt.
I'm just gonna wear a shirt that says Jackie.
I want one of those too, Mike.
I think it's funny, people are fangirling just food groups now.
They just wanna get on the bandwagon of oat milk or aioli or whatever it is.
I do have an Alvarek shirt that just says coffee, which that's one of my favorite t-shirts.
I think one day we should all just wear our food group paraphernalia.
Some people complain about it, but I think some of the best networking happens before the tent.
So when people stand outside and they're waiting in the sun and it's beautiful outside and the line is forming, and all the people that you wanna meet, they wanna go into the tent, but the line's long.
John and I just wait in the middle and let the line form around us.
And then this year we got to have several meaningful conversations.
One was with the brand called Mochi Love.
Did you try Mochi Love?
No.
It's mochilove.co.
And the differentiator for, I mean, there's a lot of great mochi out there.
Like, you know, my mochi comes to mind.
But this one is a refrigerated mochi instead of frozen.
And so it's got the squish, squish, squish, squish.
So it's squishy and they have two flavors and one's mango and one's chocolate.
And I had the mango and I was like, I gotta have the chocolate now.
And they're like, okay.
And then they gave me a Taylor Swift friendship bracelet.
Now I have so much FOMO.
I agree about the lines though.
I was in the legendary Goodell's line.
And so I was in line and Kartik from Dusra and Sahitya from Chetney Punch were walking by.
So we all hung out in line together.
So that made the line a lot more enjoyable.
I guess my last shout out would be to the founders of Case.
Case is a new Taiwanese tea, and it's super cool, super hip, very, very tasty.
Like a better for you tea that you'd find like...
It's a better for you tea like the ones you'd find out like Bubble Tea or H Mart or Super 88 or 99 or places like that.
So I mean, I could totally see this going off there if people want a better for you option, but I could also see it going off in Whole Foods.
I mean, there's like a little bit of label changing probably to do, but to make it a little bit more accessible.
But wow, was that liquid cut.
So the case tea was tasty.
Well, thank you both.
Those were some great takeaways from Expo West 2024.
In this episode of Community Call, there will be plenty more takeaways as I chat with Melanie Masarin of Ghia and Tom Shea of Agile Media about out of home marketing strategy.
What it costs, tactical tips on a winning campaign and how to track success.
Enjoy.
Today on Community Call, we are thrilled to welcome Melanie Masarin, founder and CEO of Ghia and Tom Shea, co-founder of Agile Media.
We are going to be talking about opportunities and strategies for brands with out of home marketing.
Tom and Melanie, thank you so much for joining us.
It's a pleasure to have you here today.
Out of home marketing is certainly an unparalleled opportunity for brand exposure, but it's tricky to track results.
And I think that a lot of brands don't know if it's the right fit for them.
So certainly appreciate you both joining us today to talk about your experiences and your advice.
Why don't we start with you, Melanie?
Could we hear a little bit about what your experience with out of home marketing has been like so far with Ghia?
Let's start with when you started running out of home marketing campaigns.
Sure.
We started running out of home the first year that we were in business, mainly with kind of wheat pastes advertising.
So very little kind of shorts, you know, New York campaign to celebrate our launch.
And then, you know, the following year that our first campaign with Adgile, with some trucks.
And that was kind of like a bigger campaign for us.
I think at first we started only in New York and then went kind of across cities.
And since then, you know, we've grown to doing a little bit more.
We did a few billboards for our launch at Sweetgreen.
We did a bigger billboard for Dry January and very occasionally with Pace campaigns.
And the trucks have sort of been our part of our always on strategy because we love them.
So we can talk about that more.
And what was the impetus for deciding to go ahead with it?
How did you even decide to jump in?
We had seen other brand campaigns.
And when we launched, we were only online because we launched in the depths of COVID.
And there's something about out of home that just helps make a brand very tangible for people, that helps create sort of credibility.
And it was just that, I think we did our first campaign just around the time when people were sort of like going outside again.
So it was like a deep, very end of 2020.
There's, we're kind of like things were shut down, but not as much.
And so we did like a very short campaign.
It was also less competitive right at that time.
So that was kind of how we started.
And then when the world sort of reopened and we wanted to kind of capture people's attention outside of their phone, it was just like a really good way to also engage the community people love seeing out of home.
It's something that definitely has a super positive connotation for people.
It's also like often less expensive than brands think to do a little bit and can go a very long way because it's something that you can amplify digitally, right?
I think one of the hesitancies is that it is so hard to track with obviously social media, you can track impressions and clicks and that kind of thing.
What were your goals going into the campaign, the out of home campaigns that you had set up?
Were there specific targets that you had in mind that you knew you wanted to be able to accomplish?
At the very beginning, we didn't because we also, we weren't spending any money on ads really.
So, you know, very, very early days marketing, we're sort of like total marketing and of total sales, right?
And the only goal was to get the word out and make the people that maybe had seen us on their friends' stories or on Instagram, like for them to know that we were a real company and a real brand and a trusted product that they could drink, right?
So it's often obviously like much harder to calculate the results of top of funnel marketing, but it has also become harder with the kind of attribution on like iOS 14.5.
So all in all, I think that, you know, it's obviously a mix of both, and especially when paired with a retail rollout where we don't have people's last click information or last point of purchase information.
You know, it's like we have to get the word out somehow.
We have to educate people somehow, and we're so limited in terms of what we can do at the store.
So there's just broader ROI that we calculate.
And then Tom, I know that you see so many campaigns come across your desk.
What are some of the typical goals that brands have when they're launching into out of home?
I would categorize there as three discrete buckets that people turn to us to support.
One Melanie already touched on it, they're struggling with acquiring customers post iOS 14.5.
So whether that's scaling past a certain level of spend or simply just watching tax balloon on those digital channels, it's an interesting solution in that if you assume you need seven to nine touch points to get someone from the top of the marketing funnel to the bottom of the marketing funnel, out of home is a very low CPM.
And so you can see a world where you're bringing down the weighted average cost to acquire a customer if you're layering in a lower CPM solution like out of home.
The other reasons are, and I'd say these have really picked up, especially in the recent years, newly launching in retail or trying to support the retail strategy.
That's been a really big one.
I think most of the brand's origin stories are one of digital nature.
So they came up in a digitally native ecosystem.
And Meta is really good at finding people who index well to the brand and shop online.
It's not as good as finding people who index well to the brand but shop in store because the Metapixel success measurement or success action, and all the lookalike retargeting algorithms are being recalibrated when someone makes an online purchase.
And so finding the audience that you're trying to reach outdoors out of home is a big and good solution.
Then the final one I think I'd highlight is there's a new innovation, a new skew or a new partnership.
And they're trying to figure out a way to quickly and efficiently get the news out to the masses.
Could I ask you to explain iOS 13.5?
Yeah, I will try to do the abridged version.
But essentially before iOS 14.5, if Tom Shea got served an Under Armour ad on Facebook and I clicked it, Facebook would be able to follow me onto Under Armour's website so that they could see did I buy something or not.
And if I did buy something, they would recalibrate their machine learning lookalike retargeting algorithms to send more Under Armour ads to people that look like Tom Shea.
Now, post-IS 14.5, when I click on that Under Armour ad, Facebook cannot by default follow me off the platform.
All they can see is I click on an advertisement.
And so as you can imagine, that really threw a wrench in their typical sort of method of doing business with those retargeting algorithms.
And so if you look at a company like an Under Armour and a Facebook, they're gonna figure out that information highway.
They're gonna figure out how to fix that.
But for a lot of small businesses, which publishers like Facebook, TikTok, et cetera, rely on for business, people like my dad, they're not gonna be able to figure out that information highway.
And because a meta, a company like Meta has 66% of revenue coming from small and medium businesses, that was pretty dramatic in terms of the impact on those publishing networks.
Thorough explanation.
Thank you so much for that.
Melanie, the third point that Tom laid out there as reasons why brands might launch out of home was partnerships.
And you mentioned the Sweet Green partnership that you supported with Out of Home.
How was that campaign?
Did you get the results you were hoping for?
Well, actually, it's kind of interesting because we had already decided to do this campaign with the billboards and then we, you know, we're launching at Sweet Green and so we offered to share some of the billboards to sort of split the cost of those campaigns and it was basically like, Ghia is now available at Sweet Green, but because we launched in LA, it was really nice to be able to do something that was more tangible within that market, you know?
I think when you launch at a national retailer, it's obviously much more costly, but here, because we had a very localized way, it was just a way to add another data point because our PR agency talks a lot about the rule of seven and how someone has to see a product seven times to purchase it.
And so for Sweet Green, we really wanted to see how we could get in front of people before they either went to the restaurants or opened the app so that they would be more likely to convert at launch.
And so billboards are out of home was obviously really helpful for that.
We promoted on all of our social media as well and did a local email to people in the area.
But any way that you can kind of add these numbers before people get to the point of sale is better.
And so it was really helpful.
We were super happy.
It's hard to collect data on like who actually saw those billboards, but we got so many like anecdotal, like I saw your Sweet Green billboards that you can sort of tell customers are very engaged and will sort of tell you when they see something.
They were super grateful that we wanted to promote it as well.
But for them, it's a very small part of the marketing and a very small collaboration, given everything that they have going on, but definitely being able to kind of like strengthen partnerships where you basically split the cost of creating brand awareness.
Have you noticed any, are there any pleasant surprises that you can call out that have come from some of these campaigns?
Any sort of surprise wins that have come up?
I think one of the surprises is just how much people love out of home and how much it can actually transcend the kind of physical reality of where the out of home is.
So a picture of our trucks on Instagram will always perform incredibly well because people love to see them.
We'll have a lot of people even posting them.
It really creates more engagement than what you would think.
And specifically the trucks for some reason, because I think people think that the truck is full of Ghia.
And actually, Tom has some good stats on that.
It's 90 something percent of people believe that the truck is full of the product that it's branded in, which it feels like big brand, right?
And people love to see that.
So our trucks, we get so many pictures of.
People love to see them.
And you're able to just create enthusiasm this way beyond the city where the trucks are.
Yeah, so we didn't always know this because Ghia was obviously one of our first relationships.
But when we started Adgile, we took business from every category.
It didn't matter if it was B2B, HR, SaaS or consumer.
And when we were seeing outsized return and retention for folks operating in the consumer goods space, we went to people like Melanie and said, why are you so passionate about these trucks?
It's new, it's weird, like not a lot of people are doing it.
And yet you seem so passionate about it.
And we expected their response to be, oh, well, it's a low price point.
Or like the measurement and attribution technology you've been able to bring to the space has demystified the return.
What we actually heard when we asked people was, we like this form of advertising because it's the only form of advertising that no one knows is a form of advertising.
And so we took that and ran with it.
We ran a long form behavioral psychology study to reveal that 96.3% of people who see a branded truck believe it is delivering on behalf of the advertised for brand.
And so what was actually happening when people were seeing these trucks is they were making the assumption that the presence of those vehicles must suggest all of their neighbors and peers were ordering and consuming that product.
And so just like everyone wants to go to that restaurant with the seven-month wait list, everyone is a bit more impressionable than they like to believe.
And everyone wants to try the product that seemingly all their neighbors and peers were trying.
And so since then over the years, we've really, I think, leaned into that.
It's become an interesting wedge at the intersection of out of home and consumer.
Or if you do a wild post and you do a billboard, people know you pay for an ad.
When you're after a bunch of trucks, it looks like everyone's ordering your product.
And so that's really been, I think, a catalyst for our business.
And today, we're consumer goods and services specialists.
We really don't take business from outside categories unless there's a true business case that necessitates that.
Are there any other surprising returns on out of home media?
I think there's something that's evolved over time, is out of home and experiential marketing used to sort of be discrete concepts.
One was very earned media focused and one was very passive.
And I think over time, we've seen a marrying of those two concepts, where especially as of late, brands are finding way to manufacture serendipity.
So like Melanie gave an example of how someone would find the truck, take a picture, post it on social.
And that's like true serendipity, right?
Right place, right time, right situation.
More and more, we're seeing brands actually build that into their campaign.
And I think it's a luxury for our business that we have something on wheels.
And, you know, it's just a random example.
Fury, the women's deodorant company, they have Barbara Corcoran as an investor, the shark tank investor.
And so as part of their campaign, we made sure to do a content shoot where we had the asset go to Barbara Corcoran's house because she's super busy and we want to be respectful of her time.
And they filmed a bunch of content.
And obviously, if you look at their socials, that's something that's performed really well.
So more and more, I think that's been a surprise or not something that I expected to have happen.
Like, I don't like experiential marketing typically.
It's usually really expensive.
And unless it goes viral, it doesn't have a good return on ads then.
But this experiential light afforded by having something on wheels, does really allow brands to deploy, whether it's to a tent pole brand moment, retailer moment or in market moment, like a Taylor Swift concert, right?
Where there's 100,000 of the right people that some of these brands are trying to factor.
So that's definitely been a surprise for our business and a welcome one.
It's been a lot of fun.
What do out of home opportunities consist of?
We would immediately think of billboards, trucks.
Is there anything else?
So fun piece of trivia, the out of home market, like 75 to 85% of all revenues go to billboards.
So you're correct in thinking that that's like the standard what people think of when they think of out of home, but it really runs the gamut.
Obviously we specialize in last mile delivery trucks.
There's taxi tops, taxi cabs.
They got little screens inside them now.
There's buses, there's trains.
If you look around, pretty much every form of commercial transportation has been subsidized by advertising, all the way from airplanes to taxis.
And so everything can be an ad if you believe it can, I guess, but you got to make sure you measure it, to value it, and once you can value it, you can figure out a price point where it create a win-win-win for everyone involved.
And Melanie, which of the components have you used in your campaigns?
It sounds like you used billboards and trucks.
Was there anything else that you used?
We've done billboards, we've done trucks, we've done just a standard wheat pasting, which are like posters on the streets.
We, in previous lives, we used stenciling on the floor, which is more guerrilla marketing.
And we had also used, sometimes you can see on like busy street corners, those video projections on the wall.
But with Ghia, we also, we branded transportation and put samples on the transportation.
It's something we're gonna maybe do again this summer.
Was the stenciling, the Ghia team stenciling, or did you?
Oh no, I was not at Ghia.
That was a previous company and you actually never, like it could be called rentalizing.
So you actually always want to have a party if you see doing that.
Some companies have stickers, which is obviously like pollution.
Others just like non-toxic paints for the floor that goes away, but it can be quite popular.
And so that's often used when you're opening a new store or a new restaurant in a neighborhood to kind of tell people to go there.
It works pretty well.
Yeah, they're all over Williamsburg.
I'll give you some weird, fun ones.
There's a billboard on a barge.
It's like a floating billboard that's common.
That's something called Ballyhoo Media that's in Miami and I believe New York.
And it goes as far as those little puddle jumper jets that are pulling those banners.
No one's really branded a blimp yet, but hopefully that's the next category we can break it to.
I'm dying to do it.
But there's also the planes in Miami, which apparently are much cheaper.
I just feel like they're so environmentally damaging that I don't want to do that.
But it definitely feels like, you know, growing up marketing.
I can't think of a better brand to put on a blimp in Miami than Ghia, I would certainly look forward to that.
Like for all the hangover people on the morning at the beach.
Absolutely.
Melanie, are there any things that you definitely would or would not do again?
Any of the components that you would definitely revisit or definitely never do again?
I think we would do all of them again.
I think with Ghia, we've decided we want to obviously be as sustainable as possible.
So we're not doing any of the stickering or thing that sort of like stays on buildings, but open to all.
Yeah.
And I think the, you know, speaking from the out of home categories perspective, it's really changed even in the time that I've been in the industry.
So there's really cool partnerships.
We take print samples and print material and we can upcycle them into tote bags through a partnership with Rareform.
So there's a really cool like sustainability play there.
And there's also environmentally safe vinyl these days.
This is a crazy story, but if you know Bill Nye, the science guy, he went to a billboard company and wanted to find a way to clean the air as air was passing through it.
And so there's now titanium dioxide coated vinyl, which is the same thing that are found on wind turbines that is activated by UV rays from the sun and will pull nitrates out of the environment.
So I think from an industry's perspective, they see the writing on the wall.
Obviously it's a bit more, I think environmentally complex when you're dealing with physical products, but those trends are here to stay.
And I think they're good trends and I'm happy to hear in that the industry sort of taking out of them.
Absolutely.
When in a brand's life cycle, does it make sense to run out of home?
Is there a certain amount of retail placement you should have established?
Is there a certain amount of social media traction that you should have?
I mean, it's certainly not free.
So in order to make the most of that budget, where should a brand be in order for it to make sense?
I think the luxury of leading with data and doing all this measurement is over time, we've been able to get smarter and build in the guardrails and be more selective about with whom we work with.
Now building a company is hard enough as it is, there's not really a space for people who opt in to try and make that harder.
So some painting in broad strokes, there's always exceptions to the rules.
We have sort of drawn some guidelines around when we will take business.
So if it is a e-commerce first business, think like an Athletic Greens where they're predominantly D2C distributing online, we're looking for 5,000 daily website visitors or greater.
And that's when this starts to feel very creative.
If they are a high AOV brand with a retail first strategy, think like a brand sold in Sephora, for example, we're generally looking for at least 10 points of distribution in the market that they're activating in.
If they are a lower AOV product, think of a consumable, we're generally looking for at least 25 points of distribution in the market that they're activating in.
Those are things that, especially when we started the business, we didn't know, we sort of put them in over time.
But now today, those are sort of the things we look for and coach people around before we're comfortable taking that business.
And to be honest, like I run a business too, if there's no chance at retention revenue, it's not really something you really want to opt into either way.
So the incentives are pretty closely aligned for us to want to make sure that we're setting people up for success and only taking business where we feel like we have a really high percentage shot.
Melanie, how do you make sure you're making the most of your budget when you're running these campaigns?
Certainly Ghia has grown so much and we're all so excited about that.
But in some regards, it's not a PepsiCo budget.
How do you make sure you're making the most of that budget?
By focusing on the most dense areas where as many people will see a product and that applies to the retailers in that market and the customers in that market.
So we started all of our campaigns in New York City.
We tested other areas and then kind of doubled down on New York City.
And now that we're going after a broader retail rollout, I think California will be a huge focus for us in the next few months.
But you just want to get as many eyeballs as possible that are as close to conversion as possible, right?
So that's how you kind of like stretch these out of home to be as close to the bottom of the funnel as you can.
Yeah.
And I think the other thing I've seen on top of that is going back to people trying to bake in earned media.
You have something that's in the real world, making sure you're supporting it, finding ways to create content with it.
You can take an investment and get about 30 days plus of content to throw into the social media hoppers.
And those are the gifts they keep giving.
And you get that earned media, those free impressions online.
And Melanie, how does Ghia typically layer in other marketing events into out of home?
Like, do you make sure, for example, if you're in a particular region, that those retailers are running promos, are you running demos in the stores?
Is there social media that coincides with out of home or does it stand on its own?
It's a little bit of both.
So, definitely have them as more like always on marketing for us.
We're wanting to keep top of mind.
We've really tried to be not promotional at Ghia.
So, we rarely do discounts and deals, except for Black Friday, Cyber Monday.
And we usually do a blip sale on our anniversary, which is in June.
But other than that, you know, I think we just avoid, but we love to kind of activate.
And so, we hosted a pair of Tivo's, we host a birthday party almost every June, and Tom kindly sent the trucks to be parked in the front.
And I think being able to actually pull the trucks out of their routes to do stuff for them is pretty new.
So, we're plotting new things for the spring.
Yeah, and I think I can lay on some interesting information.
Like oftentimes, people will come to me, and we have like a standard test and learn budget or campaign configuration.
But oftentimes, people will come to me and go, Tom, what's the right number?
And it's a really hard question to answer, especially as an outsider looking into our brand strategy.
But I'd encourage people who are dabbling with Out of Home to press those media companies for what's the impressions, reach and frequency.
And so something we've been able to, I think, help people to arrive in that campaign configuration decision is our contribution towards a broader media mix.
So Melanie is investing in a ton of different strategies simultaneously.
Well, we can tell you how hard this will work or what you should do based on how hard you need it to work.
So a good example is five trucks for three months will get 20% of the market population to an impression frequency of about 35X.
And so Melanie was talking earlier about the rule of seven.
Okay, Melanie, as we're talking about this campaign, are you confident that your other investments are gonna get those other three and a half touch points with that consumer?
If not, scale it up.
If so, and those are gonna work really hard and you're investing heavily in an alternate channel, we can scale it down and it doesn't need to work as hard.
But the thing that I do feel passionate about is just making sure across the media mix, you're getting those consumers to that impression frequency that gets them from the awareness and consideration part of the marketing funnel down to the conversion and purchase intent part of the marketing funnel.
Are there any categories or brands you wouldn't recommend for out of home?
It's a good question.
B2B businesses maybe?
It's tricky, right?
Because like my gut instinct is like super high AOV or high ACV brands, but that's not because out of home is not working.
It's because the consideration cycle is so long and it's hard to triangulate whether it was a creative or not.
So for example, if you sell luxury furniture and a table costs $7,000, well, yeah, like the out of home probably helped with some of those touch points in legitimizing the brand, but those purchase cycles are like 180 days plus.
And so now we haven't really talked too much about the measurement technology that we use, but we use a moving 14 day conversion window.
So if someone visits or takes a purchase action after 14 days of exposure to the out of home asset, we don't measure it.
We say, we can't take any credit for that conversion.
So it's not necessarily that it is not a place for them to operate.
Some of the best B2B businesses, you look at like a ramp and a Brex, there's some of the biggest out of home buyers out there.
I think the flip that it wouldn't be category specific, it'd be people who are too early is really my answer.
I think people generally operate under an 80-20 rule where 80% of marketing budget is going towards something that's consistently working and 20% is experimental.
And I'd encourage people to sort of hold true to that and only move something into that core 80% after you validated success through some test and learn campaigns.
Melanie, Ghia seems like a brand that's made for out of home because it is so aesthetically pleasing.
Are there certain considerations that you put into the designs of the billboards or are there certain aesthetic parameters that you put in place to make sure that your campaigns are effective and represent the brand the way that you want it to?
Definitely.
It is a huge struggle for us that we have a vertical bottle and we have to put them on horizontal trucks and remain something that's quite difficult to do.
You want your product to be as big as possible and you want your campaign to be as simple as possible because you often get a very short attention span from people.
And if they're driving specifically and driving cities, you know, it's like they can't really stop in front of it to kind of read the fine prints.
So the more attention grabbing, the better, which I sometimes want to do more interesting campaigns and more elaborate photo shoots, but the simpler truly is the better.
Excellent.
We do have a question from Fatima.
When a brand is first launching, say their launch date for the product is April 2024, what are some of the things you would do to make some noise and gather customers?
Is it PR?
Is it social?
Melanie, I think if you would take this one, if you were in this person and brand's shoes, how would you take this on?
I mean, it obviously depends on the type of product, right?
But I think for us, a super early strategy was doing a lot of gifting and getting people to try it.
We also launched in the depths of COVID, right?
So there was no way that we could sample or activate.
But I think that different types of marketing can really compound.
And so if you have different touch points, it's usually greater than the sum of their parts.
So lots of gifting, definitely PR, social, and whatever you can do to have word of mouth marketing at scale, I would wait to do out of home until there's again, like a number of points of purchase where people are likely to be able to get it.
Maggie from Red Antler told me something that is abstract, but I think really applies here.
And it's give, give, give, and then ask.
Whatever that is, it can be education, it can be product and things like that.
And so I always think of that.
How are you giving more than you're asking for, and giving enough so that when you do make that ask, people support that ask.
So something that I've also seen with a lot of brands, especially that are nascent, is partnerships and collabs with existing brands.
So folks have different spheres of influence, whether that's social media following or community.
And you can essentially trade that with each other in a way that makes sense for everyone if done correctly.
Where you have this following, I have this following, we probably have some overlap, but not one-to-one overlap.
So why don't we partner up and try to help each other out?
And I think Melanie can attest to this as an industry, this is one of the most welcoming and friendly industries where it does really feel like a team sport.
So just make sure you ask for that help and most people will be willing to give it.
Absolutely, it is such a great thing about this industry.
And from what I understand, it's not necessarily the same everywhere else.
So certainly grateful to be here.
Tom, Melanie had just talked a little bit about what their design approach has been to out of home.
Are there any messaging, best practices or strategies that you think would be important for folks to know about?
Yeah, this has definitely been an evolution for our business also.
At this point, because we've done so many, we now put together a creative best practices resource for brands, actually sit with them for about an hour before they start work on campaigns to talk through everything data and experience have taught us about building, perform an out of home creative.
So something you'd find in there is color psychology.
Why is color red the most performant color in out of home?
Well, what does the color red communicate to humans when we're outdoors?
Brake lights, stoplights, red lights, all communicate, stop and pay attention.
So as humans, we've been conditioned and socialized to see that color red when it's prominently featured and want to stop and pay attention.
The color purple is also an incredibly performing color.
Why purple?
Well, it is a rare naturally occurring color.
It's only found in flowers and sunsets.
So just by being prominently featured as part of out of home creative, it creates a lot of in-market contrast and grabs a lot of attention.
So, I could probably talk at length and at nauseam about the different nuances.
I think one of my favorites is knowing that humans can process imagery 60,000 times quicker than we can process text.
So sometimes brands will come to me, they have all these unique reasons to believe and value props, and I want to tell the world about that, right?
Because this is for much of that audience the first time they're being introduced to the brand.
However, if you make a creative look very busy and honestly underperform, you'd be spending too much time trying to explain what you do, as opposed to showing people what you do and how this product gets used.
So I keep in mind that caveman effects, where we didn't always have a phonetic visual language that had written texts for many generations, it was all image-based.
So again, think of how we're hardwired, we're definitely hardwired to react quickly and commit to memory imagery far quicker than we are able to text.
Certainly one of the benefits of Out of Home is that you can see it with your own eyes.
What's the best way for brands to monitor what's going on out there?
Melanie, did you send your team to certain parts of a region to take pictures of billboards and post them anywhere?
Is there any way that you and your team sort of kept eyes on what was going on?
Yeah, I usually was out of home marketing.
They'll send you pictures, but in January when we did our first big billboard, I was definitely the first one to go at six in the morning and take pictures of it and put it on TikTok.
With the trucks, we did a little contest because we obviously couldn't always track where they would be.
Tom's team took some photos for us, but then we also sent kind of like customers to basically encourage them to send us pictures if they spotted it.
So that was really fun.
And then, I think we're planning now like activating more with the trucks so that it feels even more integrated and really call customers to kind of come to the assets, which will be fun.
Yeah.
And I think out of home as a category has also evolved even significantly in the past two or three years where there's like the visual element of tracking and understanding.
But today, you're putting pixels on Ghia's website to understand, okay, what mobile phones were exposed to the brand of vehicle, capture them, see, did they show up on the website?
Did they buy something?
And not only can you do that, but you can show, did they walk into a retailer where our product sold?
Did they buy something at the retailer where our product sold?
Did they download a mobile app and what did they're after?
So out of home from a measurement perspective, what's old is new again from a measurement perspective.
And I think especially with iOS 14.5, making digital a bit more hazy, out of home sort of leveling up at the same time to really level the playing field on what you're able to do from a measurement of return on ad spend perspective.
And which metrics should you expect your agency to keep track of?
And then which metrics would you recommend the brand keep their eyes on?
Yeah, for sure.
So I think out of home as old used to just be reach frequency, impressions and a CPM.
That's what it sort of subsisted off for decades.
Today, you can now get things like incremental website traffic and cost per visit, incremental website conversions and cost per acquisition.
You can get cost per visit into a retailer.
You can get cost to acquire a customer at retail all over a control group.
And so I think those are the things that you should push your media agencies or your media partners to provide.
It sounds complicated and challenging, but it really is not as complicated as it sounds.
This technology has existed for decades in the digital arena.
And now for the first time, it's sort of coming into the physical world.
Beyond that, I think demographics, psychographics, making sure those impressions are getting to the right people, especially if you're sort of positioning for a specific consumer segment.
There's going to be an asset out there that's great for your business case, and there's going to be one out there that's awful for your business case, depending on what type of consumer you're trying to attract.
So an understanding of those nuances are pretty important in the context of planning an out-of-home camping.
Is there a way to track which traffic to your website or to the store is a result of out-of-home versus the other marketing events that are happening at that time?
Yeah, there is.
So I can speak about Agile.
I can't speak to out-of-home broadly, but essentially what's happening here is there's a GPS embedded in the vehicle that has a callable API that gives us latitude, longitude and timestamp of the vehicle every second.
So we know where the vehicle is.
We take that API information and then we use software on the backend to draw a geo-fence around the circle every second, capturing mobile phones that have location services enabled.
So if you have a dating app, a weather app, a navigation app, those free to use consumer facing apps are monetizing by selling ads and by selling location data to folks like ourselves.
Once we capture someone's mobile phone as an exposed individual, there's a ton we can do with it.
We can figure out what other devices are associated with them, their desktop, tablet, connected TV, et cetera.
We can figure out their demographics and psychographics.
And most importantly, we can follow the customer journey thereafter to an actual acquisition, whether that's on an e-commerce or retail.
While it's interesting and novel to be able to do that, that doesn't tell you the full story, right?
Because just because someone saw a Ghia truck and then went to the website, doesn't mean that that is what influenced them to go to the website, especially when you're investing in a ton of concurrent strategies.
So everything I just shared consists of our hypothesis group.
We're capturing people near the truck, following their behavior to the website, but simultaneously and at all times, we create a control group by taking the truck's live GPS information, going 10 minutes backwards on its route, and dropping a pin using software called a ghost truck.
We're redrawing a geofence around this ghost truck every second to capture a population of people we know have not been exposed to the branded vehicle.
So functionally, you can picture there's a real truck, there's a fake truck, they're both moving through society, both being geofence, one creating an exposed, one creating a control.
And we're following their discrete conversion behavior to understand the difference between the two, to understand incrementality.
So if there were 5,000 website visitors for conversions in the branded truck population, we're not sitting here saying, hey, we deserve credit for those 5,000.
We're looking at the ghost truck population, which might have logged 4,500 conversions.
And then we'd be backing that out to say something like your X dollar media investment drove these 500 incremental conversions.
And based on your AOV and LTV, that results in a row S of Y.
So it's definitely become, I think, a bit more scientific and intentional.
Because essentially what that's doing is creating a clean testing environment where between exposed and control, all other variables are held constant.
Equal likelihood to have been exposed to PR, paid social, organic, et cetera.
So the difference is one group has seen trucks, one has not.
And so you can isolate the incremental value associated with that media investment.
What is the cost of out of home marketing?
And of course, I know there's gotta be a large range of what it might cost.
But understanding so many of the brands that are in our ecosystem and community, so many of them are in the emerging space.
What's the minimum budget you should have at your disposal in order for it to make sense and for it to be worth it?
So essentially, going back to that 80-20 rule, you know, I would consider this part of the 20% where you're experimenting with something, especially if it's net new and you haven't done it before.
Generally, our test and learn campaigns are about $30,000 all in for three months.
So you can think about it as $10,000 per month for that investment.
And so I'd say that's a significant enough scale where you can learn something and you can get to the conclusion of that campaign to inform whether, hey, was this in a creative business decision or not?
Should we continue to invest in this channel or not?
Obviously, there's a lot more that goes into it and considering scaling it up, there's things you're going to want to be testing, like testing different markets, testing different times of the year, testing different creative and things like that.
But in terms of people, you know, just tipping their toe for the first time, I'd keep it simple and I'd keep it all in one market, actually.
I get asked that question a lot, why don't we do a little bit in like 10 different markets?
It's really an impression frequency thing.
You're going to get a better return from getting a fewer amount of people further down the marketing funnel than you are going to get a ton of people just narrowly in that marketing funnel.
Yeah, I think you can start dabbling into out of home marketing with around 15,000 hours, but there is such a thing as doing campaign too small to both analyze results and get good results, right?
So, in the same way that while you can now more or less track the return on a campaign like an agile campaign, it is not the full story because how good your creative is and how you get to amplify it can make a massive difference.
I think in the case of out of home, if you do it as isolated, you may not see the returns that you want.
Whereas if you do it as part of a 360 marketing initiative, which can have a lot of earned media as part of it, you'll likely see it a lot more.
And how would you quantify too small?
Is it, you know, you need to be able to run at least three billboards and wrap two trucks?
Is it a matter of you need to run it for at least two weeks or four weeks to see an impact?
What's too small?
There's probably an inflection point where you actually get to maximize, you know, how many people see it for your number of retail stores or, you know, POS such that you're going to see a lot of conversion.
And, you know, this is something that explains why brands often will go and activate market by market, right?
Because there's the kind of like word of mouth, people see your billboard, you do a dinner, you post on Instagram, you invite people to a store for an in-store activation, and like it is more likely that people are going to talk about your brand, which will, you know, in return, like help amplify it.
And so if you think of that again, being much, much greater than the sum of its part, if you were to say, okay, we're going to test one in Chicago and one in LA because that's all the budget, then you're likely to see like much smaller results than if you were doing all of these things at once, even for a shorter period of time on the same market.
Yeah, it's an impression frequency thing for me, and it's not necessarily out of home.
It's your broader media mix.
So you know, you can get away with one truck, but you got to make sure that everything else is working pretty hard in that market.
So I would think about it as an impression frequency perspective.
Great information from the both of you.
Thank you so much for joining.
In closing, I'd like to ask each of you, just generally, what's your best advice for brands who are thinking about running out of home?
Maybe they're thinking about how they might plan that campaign.
Tom, let's start with you.
What's some of the best advice that you give to your clients?
Yeah, I think everything can be effective if priced correctly.
And out of home comes from a place of, you know, for decades not having measurement and attribution.
And so it was really hard to value.
That's a changing reality, in my opinion.
And so if you can measure something today, you can value it.
If you can value it, you can price it correctly to make sure it creates a win-win-win for everyone involved.
And honestly, if you can't and that math equation doesn't work, that doesn't really deserve to exist in the market anyway.
And so I think it's a really tricky category for folks for the uninitiated.
It's important that you find people you trust to sort of act as your Sherpa or your subject matter expert.
You're really good at what you do and you spend all day doing it and probably better than anyone else doing it.
And there's people out there that this is all that they do and obsess over it.
And so for the community that's done so much for our business, I'm obviously happy to function as that second set of eyes or a listening ear for folks who have questions.
I think my advice is to remember to design campaigns for out of home for people that are people that have never seen your brand before, because the more people that are going to see those assets have never heard of your brand before.
And sometimes we're so deep in it that we want to take this opportunity to educate on kind of secondary and tertiary message.
And it's just not the right strategy if you want to capture as much of the consumer's attention as possible.
And I have to ask as well, what's next for Ghia?
I know that you're always working on something.
What should we keep our eyes peeled for?
Ghia will be launching in 600 Target stores on March 20th.
So you're likely to see a lot of ad-affirm campaigns about that.
That is so exciting.
I think we're all going to be running to our nearest target to pick up some Ghia.
Congratulations on that.
And last, Tom, you offered that you could be a second set of eyes.
What's the best way for folks to get in touch with you?
Yeah, I am pretty diligent on my email.
Not so good on any other platform.
So it's tshea, S-H-E-A, at agile.co, A-D-G-I-L-E dot C-O.
And yeah, anyway, it can be helpful.
It's a really small world.
There's like a hundred operators in the space.
So there's a pretty good chance that if you're looking for something, whether it's that floating billboard in Miami or that plane that's going over the beach, I can help get you to the right person.
And more importantly, pretend that you're my cousin so that they don't screw you over on Priced One.
Fantastic.
That concludes another episode of the Community Call Podcast.
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