Welcome to the Community Call Podcast.
I'm Melissa Travers, Director of Community here at BevNET & NOSH.
We're here with my co-host, Jackie Brugliera and Mike Schneider.
If you're enjoying the show, please follow us and review us on the Apple Podcast platform or your listening platform of choice.
It will really help us get the word out and we would appreciate it so much.
Jackie and Mike, so great to see you here.
Jackie, you've been a constant steady presence in these Community Call Podcasts, but Mike, what a pleasure to have you join.
Now it's a party.
It's a party time, I'm here.
Well, let's get this party going with some community wins.
We have been seeing some great stuff from our BevNET & NOSH Community out there, starting with Elise Eilerman of the Bad Tea Company.
I just saw that they got a website makeover and now they're shipping nationwide, which is super exciting.
Oh, one of my favorite baddies, Elise.
She is our favorite baddie.
And you know, until I checked out their new website, and maybe this is just me, but I didn't realize that it stands for bold and delicious.
Right.
Yeah, and I mean, their branding and their website is definitely bold.
And if you've looked at their social media, I thought it was hilarious.
They had a post that said, we don't let caffeine spank us with anxiety.
I mean, everything they do is bold.
Their expo activation, too, they have that booth where they're crushing plates.
I saw Jackie crushing plates, she was so happy.
So of course I had to try it.
You know, I actually do feel like if I have too much caffeine, it spanks me with anxiety.
Like, that's exactly like I feel like I'm being tortured by the caffeine.
So that's why we limit you to one a day.
I also saw that Olivia Chen of Twirl Milk Tea posted that they just got into all the Sprouse locations, which is huge.
And they just got their woman owned business certification, which is no small feat.
Those things take like a long time.
That should be one question.
Are you owned by women?
Yes.
Yeah, right, right.
Exactly.
But I mean, no joke, it can take a year or more to get all that paperwork in order.
What do you have to submit in order to, you know, confirm that you are a woman owned business?
Maybe I should do a community call on it, right?
And if you want to join the community, head to slack.bevnet.com.
Get in there, start talking to everyone that's in our Slack channel, ask some questions, see what other people are talking about.
So, there might be an event coming up, something that you can participate in.
Ask your hardest questions while you're in there, too.
We have a channel where you introduce yourself first.
So you're going to start the conversation immediately.
Give us your hardest questions, share your big wins.
We'll give you a shout out on this podcast.
It's a big party.
It's nothing but parties over here at BevNET & NOSH.
You can also get your own shout out on the podcast, too, by participating.
So if you want to participate in Community Call, it's easy.
You just sign up for a Community Call, show up, raise your hand, ask a question or add an insight.
bevnet.com/communitycall.
You can head over there to see all the upcoming calls, sign up for them, join us live and ask questions to the folks that we have on.
We've got the experts over here just doling out the answers for free.
They say they say nothing comes for free, but like I can't really think of there's no price for this.
It's just totally free.
It's free.
And then you you get to be on the podcast, too.
So win, win, win.
So definitely sign up for upcoming episodes there and join us live.
bevnet.com/communitycall.
We are here today to present to everyone the community call that we did with Sean Connor of ForceBrands, Ayeshah Abuelhiga of Mason Dixie and Jason Bronstad of Malk on leadership and hiring trends, which they did a great job with.
So they talked about the positions that are in demand, the applicant pool and company culture.
Before we head into that, I have to ask you both, do you have any, I'm not going to ask who Jackie's favorite boss was because Mike's sitting right here.
I think I'm her only one.
I'd have to say Mike.
But who can you name an inspiring leader in your life that, you know, shaped the way that you work and the way you are today?
Yeah, so not including Mike, of course, I would say my coach at Bentley, Barbara Stevens, she is a Hall of Famer.
She's one of the best coaches of all time in women's basketball.
And she was just an amazing leader on and off the court and held us all to very high standards as human beings and as athletes.
What about her stands out to you is making her a great leader?
For sports coaches, I feel like sometimes they're just very focused on performance and who you are on the court.
I think what she really cared about was who you were as a person and taking that time to get to know you.
And she always had a knack of knowing when something was up or something was going on in your life.
And she would act as that person to kind of talk to and work through that because half of the sport is mental.
So having that connection to your coach is important.
Fantastic.
How about you, Mike?
Well, an inspiring leader that I know is Jackie Brugliera, who I get to work with on a day-to-day basis.
And whose coach did a really good job of teaching her how to lead by example and how to set people up with great opportunities and just make sure that people feel like they're empowered, but kind of give them enough rope to hang themselves.
And then if they do, cut them down and help them out and prop them back up and send them back out there.
So Jackie's just on a day-to-day basis amazes me.
Jackie, I'm going to have to pile on to that and agree, you really are an amazing leader and we're so lucky to have you here.
Thanks.
Well, I'm going to stop this love fest so we can get to the Community Call.
We hope you enjoy.
Do you have a recent product launch, new hire, marketing campaign, distribution news or some other exciting company announcement?
Let us know.
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Just head to submit.bevnet.com to get started.
Today, we are going to be talking about current hiring trends and the future of leadership with an outstanding panel.
We've got Sean Connor of ForceBrands, a strategic recruitment leader that helps consumer brands find talent that matches their growth strategy.
Jason Bronstad from Malk Organics, a premium plant-based milk made with simple, high-quality organic ingredients.
And Ayeshah Abuelhiga from Mason Dixie, a scratch-made breakfast brand that makes delicious frozen biscuits and breakfast sandwiches.
So thank you all so much for being here today.
We have a lot to talk about.
COVID-19, the current economic environment, all of these things have greatly impacted the trends in hiring.
And we're also at a point where financial health is more important than ever in the leadership style and activities that leaders like you are exhibiting are of the utmost importance.
So why don't we dive into what the current hiring trends look like now?
And Sean, you had a really interesting way of framing this up in terms of how brands can make money versus how they can save money.
What do you mean by that?
Yeah, thank you for just framing it in those two buckets.
And that's essentially the thought process entrepreneurs and overall brands are kind of thinking through.
A, it's how do we save money?
And then B, how do we make money, as you mentioned?
So roles that are essentially impacting those two buckets, one, finance.
Anything related to saving costs, cash flow management, finding a path to profitability or increasing profitability, we're seeing really high demand for CFOs, VPs of finance, just overall finance talent in this market.
So there's high demand for those professionals.
I would say second to that, it's operations professionals.
So opportunities to expand margin, find efficiencies across the supply chain.
We're also seeing a big demand for talent in businesses that have their own manufacturing components, which are now definitely on trend and doing well in this market.
But I would say those are two areas that are helping businesses kind of save money.
I would say on the other end of that, it's how brands can make money, and particularly how can they invest in hiring really good retail sales professionals.
During the pandemic, as you mentioned, there was this big focus on direct to consumer, which is still here to stay.
Omnichannel strategy is not going away by any means.
However, all of the challenges that we've seen with customer acquisition and converting those customers, we are now seeing a big focus within kind of the retail sales segment.
So brands, from our perspective, that's essentially where they've been focusing on hiring.
Thanks so much for setting that up, Sean.
I would love to hear from Ayeshah and Jason about how those trends are sort of playing out in your current hiring processes and in your businesses.
Ayeshah, would you start us off and talk about any of the trends that Sean mentioned, how those are resonating with your day-to-day?
Yeah, I think as a mid-sized brand, we were already on a general progression in terms of how we looked at investment.
So last year, we really focused on the operations side, and this year kind of leaning into the finance side with a new CFO hire coming on board.
I think it's been interesting to see kind of the changes that are happening though, because some of these roles are quite traditional, and folks are usually typecasting people in ops or finance based on their focus areas or the traditional, you know, do I need somebody in ops who is boots on the ground, has worked in a manufacturing facility, or do I need someone in ops who is 100% basically a cost accountant, right?
There's been a very broad stroke of really identifying the need at hand and how we are decoupling what ops is.
Similar in finance, I think it's been interesting.
I mentioned this to the team before, but these roles are typically the ones where it's about salary and it's about bonus and benefits and security of whether or not there's capital behind these brands.
But it's interesting because the candidates we've been looking at have actually still are looking to vote with their heart.
They want to go somewhere where they belong, where they can make a cultural impact as well as a business impact.
So I think even though we are in an economically challenged macro environment, people are still having the luxury to decide where they lay their head to rest.
And they are looking for brands that have a true value premise.
So I'd encourage people to continue to push those values forward as they look for hiring.
Those are some great examples.
Thank you for that.
Jason, how about you?
How is this all playing out at Malk?
Ayeshah, that is such a well-stated dynamic.
So as we're hiring, we're looking for growth-minded individuals.
If their background is ops or if their background is finance, they can fit in either one.
Because ultimately what we want to do is bring team members on that are going to find a way to challenge the status quo, to collaborate across departments.
Gone are the days where if you're in sales, you're only in sales.
The number of times that our sales team is collaborating with operations, working on the logistics of getting a load delivered, or that operations is reaching out to sales saying, hey, can we adjust these POs for these customers?
The collaboration dynamic is inherently allowing people to elevate their personal growth.
And that's what we're about here.
It's not only the personal, but the professional growth at Malk.
And over the last year, we've had the opportunity to bring on some senior leaders in sales and finance, as well as a more robust operations team, as you said, Sean, because it is ultimately about ensuring that the dollars that we do have to invest, we're investing in the way that will give us the optimal return.
Sean, do you have any sort of overall advice for folks who are in hiring positions in terms of how to take advantage of these trends and how to place folks?
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And Ayeshah said it perfectly.
There is a significant amount of opportunities out there, even in this market.
However, I think what Ayeshah and Jason has done so well is really kind of sharing the opportunity.
Why is it a better opportunity to work in our organization versus any others?
And specifically, candidates in this market, yes, they absolutely do want stability because economic uncertainty is real.
And so that is something if you can clearly outline for them, that is a question candidates are constantly asking.
But I would say equally is they want to work for impactful leaders.
Impactful leaders are definitely stressing and clearly outlining, and I would say empowering a more collaborative, innovative, inclusive work culture.
They're developing talent internally.
They're fostering some sort of autonomous work culture, whether that's a hybrid work culture or remote work culture.
These are things that candidates are looking for.
And so I think Jason and Ayeshah have done a really good job of kind of sharing those values and getting candidates excited and on board because again, candidates aren't looking for a lateral move.
They're looking for better opportunities.
So how can you clearly outline that for them?
Thanks so much for that.
And for everyone else, if you hopped on late, we are talking to Sean Connor of ForceBrands, Jason Bronstad from Malk Organics, and Ayeshah Abuelhiga of Mason Dixie.
If you do have any questions or thoughts on the matter, please go ahead and throw them in the chat.
We definitely want to hear from you.
Thanks so much for laying that out, Sean.
So I'm hearing, and I think this has always been the case, but it sounds like perhaps it's more so than ever that company culture plays in so much to what candidates are looking for.
Jason, how do you approach company culture?
What's your leadership style?
And what kind of culture are you working every day to build?
Yeah, it's going back to growth, and the personal growth is as important as the professional growth.
We will all face challenges professionally, and it will stretch our capabilities professionally, but what we're trying to build here at Malk is an environment where you are encouraged to pursue personal growth.
We have a dreams book, and all of our employees can write down their personal dreams, and on our Slack channels, it's, you know, what are your dreams lens?
So we celebrate when someone climbs, you know, 14,000 footers, when someone runs a marathon, when someone adopts a nephew, right?
There's things that we celebrate openly because when you can bring your whole self to work, you can truly make a difference and feel the inclusivity.
The other thing on growth is, you know, we have master class as one of our options for the team.
And today, just before this call, there was a group that got together because they said, hey, we have this master class, let's get together and talk about it.
There's also examples where my team will, on their own, say, hey, we're geographically close enough, let's go have a breakfast just to be together.
We are primarily a remote organization, but we thrive and enjoy the times that we do come together intentionally.
I'm just curious, I love the idea of a dreams forum.
Is there, just because everyone likes to feel a good story, can you think of one of the most outstanding dreams that someone's realized lately?
I don't mean to put you on the spot.
No, no, it's fine.
One of our employees had put on their dreams list to acquire a parcel of land that they were going to build their forever home on and they closed on that land in the last few months.
So cool.
I love it.
So certainly celebrating what people are doing outside of work kind of helps the cause.
Indeed.
Ayeshah, how about you?
How would you describe your leadership style and what are some of the instruments and activities that you're using in order to build Mason Dixie's company culture?
I think over the course of the last two years, it's been a tough four years, I think, for everyone, all the ups, all the downs.
So it's been challenging to really root ourselves on one type of culture.
And I think in the last year where Mason Dixie, we've made investments in our C-suite, it's really the opportunity for me to lean on the thought leaders that we work so hard to bring here, bring their character, their values, their leadership style to the fold.
So it's not just about me.
I always tell people the thing I'm most proud of as a founder is the team that I get the chance to build, right?
The fact that these amazing humans have picked me as a leader, as this company to be here, they could be anywhere else, right?
So thrusting them into the forefront more, making sure that their visibility is just as big as a founder's is, I think, really, really important because they're the ones doing the hard job and making the hard decisions.
That being said, though, all the change in the last few years has really forced folks in small, emerging, mid-size, emerging, fast growth brands to be very proactive when it comes to change management and handling that well.
And I think for us growing at, you know, triple digits every year, we have one of the most resilient teams I've ever met.
And I think everyone new that's kind of come in has said, you guys don't give up, right?
You don't, you don't, everyone pivots on a dime.
Like they're like, no, I'm gonna win.
So that excitement is something that we continue to try to stoke because the second that ends, the energy dies and that's when things start to fall apart.
So it's really been like one of the things we do every Friday.
We have a team call.
We have something called Change Focus.
And we highlight two big areas that the whole team is struggling with collaboratively.
We give homework and we rate ourselves every week on whether or not we're doing better.
And it's a team effort.
It's at all levels.
Everyone gets to participate in it.
And it's been incredibly constructive and collaborative because it allows every person on the team to be a problem solver and a change maker.
And I think that is really when you're recruiting talent, especially like we have from bigger corporate environments because you want the institutional knowledge to start creating roots in your organization.
You got to break a lot of things that they are preconditioned to have or think they have, right?
But you also got to kind of water and curate the things that they came here for.
They came here to be an active change maker.
They came here to have a voice.
They came here to be results oriented.
So if you're not stoking that, it's a waste of a team night.
So those are some of the things that we're kind of really focused on this year.
I think between you Ayeshah and you Jason, you've both sort of spoken to this growth mindset and being able to grow talent from within your organization.
There was an article in the Harvard Business Review just recently about quiet hiring that talks about just that.
So encouraging internal talent mobility.
What does that look like?
How do you identify that you have someone within your organization that's a superstar?
Perhaps they're not in exactly the right place.
How do you identify it?
And maybe you have an example of how you move the person or the activities to center around the person in a way that became more productive for everybody.
Jason, do you want to take that first?
And then I'll ask you, Ayeshah.
Absolutely.
So one of the things that as a startup company, you're always hiring doers.
And then the biggest challenge is how do you transition those doers into the strategic thought leaders and then pass those tasks down to elevate those people on the team?
So recently we were able to hire an account person with some Catman background as well to take that load off of our head of sales to allow her to elevate up in her strategic thought leadership and at the same time, bring in a more complex skill set to an employee that we brought on just back in February.
So also internally, we're always every month when our leadership team meets in person, we're having those discussions about people.
You know, where are the people?
What are their skill set?
How do we elevate them?
Who brought up this idea?
How can we really recognize, lift up and honor the team and the hard work that they're putting in every day?
How are you identifying those superstars?
I mean, certainly performance based metrics would work, but how do you know the difference between someone you want to hang on to at all costs versus perhaps someone who would better, another situation might be better for them work wise?
So that it was said well earlier, when you bring in the team that you bring in on your C-suite, you leverage their experience, you leverage their wisdom and knowledge, and then you have those frank conversations.
And that's where it comes down to is, is the honest dialogue that you have with your leadership team, both as a forum, you know, as a collective, and then in your weekly one-to-ones is, you know, the other thing for me personally, you know, we're still a small company.
I am on a regular cadence of one-to-one with all of our employees to make sure that, you know, there's four agenda items.
What's a dreams update?
What's a work win?
Where's the work friction?
And what questions do you have that are unanswered?
Those are the four things.
And it is their call.
It's not me driving the agenda.
It's their opportunity to share with me what's on their heart, what they're feeling, what opportunities they see in that one-to-one environment.
Ayeshah?
I was just going to jump on.
You know, one of the things we do to highlight and isolate folks that are really winning is we have a thing on every Friday morning.
Do it intentionally on Fridays, if you're up and you're at it, because everyone kind of gets excited about it.
It's called Fast Five Fridays.
So everyone in the company kind of nominates winners through the week of somebody did a killer job.
Somebody is escalating beyond belief.
Someone landed a crazy deal.
Someone fixed a big problem we had.
And because it's not self nominated, it's team nominated.
We highlight the top five wins every week.
And it does bring a lot of exposure to who's putting in the work, right?
Who's trying to gain that visibility.
So that's something I think that's kind of been encouraging to see, because it makes people feel really positive.
It closes out the week on a high note.
It starts the Friday off on a high note, but it also allows us to really, because it's really easy when you're moving so quickly, you're never as retrospective as you want to be, right?
It's a really great way to stop and say, damn, we did a great job, right?
That person did a great job.
High fives all around.
And what we've noticed in the last few months is also highlighted key folks that are probably more strategic than we thought, or more talented than we thought in various soft skill sets.
So we started to enable those folks to help other team members.
So for example, we brought in a new COO who is incredibly adept at communications management task flows.
And within weeks, like two weeks, right, just some of the highlights and wins that were coming up, not just from her, but her team members, were like epiphanies for other groups.
So she's been enabled to go in and help them with process flows, road mapping, milestone, you know, and it's just been a transformational progress tool for the entire company to have her be able to facilitate that.
So I think the more that you get the team to raise somebody else up, the quicker you're going to realize who really deserves another opportunity or an advancement opportunity.
And just to piggyback on that notion, you know, as it relates to quiet hiring, not only does it give you the opportunity to promote someone internally, but it actually justifies you in making the decision to bring someone externally if that doesn't work out, because you gave your team the opportunity and they themselves saw where the gaps were as they were potentially being evaluated in that potential promotion period.
So definitely makes sense.
I also just wanted to touch on what Jason and both Ayeshah mentioned as it relates to hiring the best talent.
And Melissa, you asked, like, how do you bring in the best people?
One thing that I know we do a really good job at and the best leaders do a great job at is evaluating based on experience and what have you done in a similar role, in a similar position.
We all get excited about high growth, emerging brands, we see it all on the news, we see the stories out there, but it's different if you've actually been in a similar situation.
So what can you share through that process that you've done something similarly versus trying for the first time?
And there's roles and there's times for that, but again, it's bringing in leaders who have done something similar to help you get to that next phase of growth.
I think sometimes running a CPG brand can feel like a silo, especially for smaller brands.
And it also sounds like being within, operating within a company and feeling like you're a silo really kind of works against the growth and the leadership and the company culture that everybody's trying to establish.
So communication and connection is key, like always.
I do want to let folks know if they have any questions at all, they can throw them right in the chat.
We will answer those.
And then moving along a little bit, Ayeshah, you had mentioned social equity quitting is something that you've been more and more aware of lately.
Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Yeah, I think a lot of folks out there are starting to realize that there's more to life than just a paycheck.
And folks that have grown really quickly in their career paths and maybe hit a bit of a ceiling have really started to reconcile, is this really what I want to be doing for another 20, 30 years?
Because people have grown so quickly, younger folks have advanced so fast.
And also folks at the very top, they're kind of questioning like, you know, do I really want a board seat type position in my next phase?
Do I really want to work for an organization that's just concerned about their public reporting, right?
And so, you know, what we've seen a lot of is folks looking for, again, I kind of mentioned this before, a place where they can really grow some roots or apply all the learnings that they've had in their illustrious careers to a place and advance them.
And then for us, you know, we're a predominantly women run organization and a predominantly diverse organization.
It's not a checkbox.
It's not something that we go out to the world to say, we have to.
What you put out in the world, you get back.
And I think showing a diverse brand with people of all walks, not just racially, not just gender wise, but also belief systems, also age.
I mean, people don't want to talk about this, but there's huge ageist culture in hiring today.
And the reality is it's because it takes work.
It takes work to integrate such diverse thinking.
It takes work to integrate diverse perspectives.
But you have to foster an environment where that's clearly working.
And I think for us, because we put that out there into the world, we're attracting some top talent from all walks of life.
And it's a refreshing conversation to have when someone goes, I really just want to take everything I learn and give that to Mason Dixie.
I want to take everything that I learned at X, Y and Z and bring that to your team.
That's an exciting time.
So I think proactively cultivating that throughout the ecosystem and the industry is definitely something that more companies should be considering as they continue to grow their teams.
I just want to highlight that because there's just a few things that Asha just shared that is really important to note.
One, both Asha and Jason, me and Jason talked a lot about inclusivity and setting up the organization for an inclusive work culture.
But as you add people of different backgrounds, all dimensions of diversity, you are essentially future proofing your business.
I read a stat the other day that 30% of the workforce will be Gen Z by the year 2030.
2030 is a little over six years away from where we're at today.
So if we think about what Gen Zers want and where they want to work and where the top talent wants to work for, they want to work for more diverse and inclusive work cultures.
And so I just wanted to highlight that.
And I'd say Sean, I think it's not just the Gen Z generation that's looking for it.
I think we talked about this before, just there's a lot of folks that are reaching their 60s and they're not ready to retire.
And they feel like they got a good 10, 15 years left.
And they've learned so much that they want to be able to put out in the world.
People are not retiring to golf anymore, right?
They're actually looking at like their second life, third life.
And how do you integrate that, right?
When you have somebody who's so experienced and with age comes rigidity, with age comes a little bit of know-it-allness, right?
But it's all well-founded, right?
There's an intention behind that that is hard to peel out at times for young people.
Like, I don't want this older person to tell me what to do.
But if you peel it back and you realize it's like, wow, there's some nuggets in there that I could learn from.
And you know what?
This is a learning opportunity for them.
They can learn how to think younger, right?
To act less or more risk prone, right?
There's all these things where it's really about building the environment for all people to thrive.
And that's, I think, the biggest challenge that's come out of this post-COVID world.
People are really grateful for life and are looking at opportunities to make a meaningful existence.
And realizing what that is for each of your team members, kind of like what Jason was saying about the dream bucket, like you got to know what's motivating your people every day.
And you got to make sure that every day they get a chance at making that a reality, not just something that dies in a bucket somewhere and no one revisits it.
Like Jason revisits it all the time.
And it's important to, right?
It's acknowledging that I brought you here, I heard what you said, I'm trying to give you what you want here.
That's got to be a part of the everyday existence of you as a leader, hirer, founder, et cetera.
And that is exactly why one of my favorite quotes right now is mindset drives behavior.
Because the mindset of that person with 30 years of experience, if their mindset is, I want to take this and elevate others to help share the wisdom I have.
And if the mindset for that recent graduate is, this person has 30 years of experience, I want to go learn from them, that mindset together makes an unbreakable bond that you can actually grow and accelerate beyond the norms that a lot of companies have today.
We have just a couple minutes left.
So as we're thinking about this topic as a whole and closing down the conversation, first I want to ask if remote work is such a big part of how we all work today, and it's certainly not going anywhere.
Jason, you mentioned that you have a one-on-one with all of your team members.
How else can leaders keep a pulse on how their employees are working and what they're thinking and what they're wanting?
How do you keep in touch with that when things are so busy?
Intentionality, you know, you schedule the time and actually make sure you're engaging on Slack.
If you use Slack as your CRM, make sure that you're interacting, acknowledging.
And I still love to say, you know, while we can text all the time on this, it still works as a telephone.
One of my favorite things to do is to encourage, especially when I'm doing one-to-ones, is, hey, let's go out, let's walk away from the computer.
You know, if you're in Minneapolis and I'm in Austin, let's go for a walk together and have our conversation because it changes the mindset, it changes the attitude.
You're away from distractions.
And that intentionality can be felt on both sides.
So making sure that you choose to engage with your team will help ensure they feel connected.
In closing, if I could ask each of you to give a little piece of advice for the leaders who are coming up now, especially those folks who perhaps launched brands right before the pandemic or during the pandemic and are now looking at larger teams and they're trying to figure out what makes sense where.
What's your best leadership advice for folks who have really grown into those roles recently?
Sean, could we start with you?
I would say a few things.
One, there certainly are companies in CPG that are hiring, but we are also seeing companies pull back and there are layups.
I mean, it's the reality of the market and the situation, particularly the bigger companies, but again, across the board.
But what that means for founders and entrepreneurs today is you have access to a larger, more qualified talent pool.
So the question is, how are you setting up yourself to position your company and the role as a better opportunity?
And candidates today are seeking better opportunities and they want to work for impactful leaders that value diversity, equity, inclusion, fostering an inclusive work culture, and really helping developing talent internally.
So I would say if you can think about those elements, you're going to be in a key position to attract and retain credible talent.
I think it's really easy to feel like in the quest for the perfect team that you always picked right, right?
That the first move that you made, that offer was going to be forever and they're going to be here till the end.
And I think you have to realize that at the pace you're growing, the company is evolving, things change, culture change, ambitions change.
It's really important to be honest and direct with your team members.
If things aren't working out, it's better to help them land somewhere else or channel their interests into a different place versus just continuing to try to make a round peg fit in a square hole, right?
To Sean's point, there's tons of talent out there.
You are not the same founder you were years ago.
You are not cultivating the same needs and interests that you were years ago.
So evolving that culture, asking their hard questions, right?
Are these people still the right people for the team today?
It's just gonna make you a stronger team.
And in the end, I think it also helps those team members that go out to the world, realize that they were ready to launch out too.
It's really easy to put 100% of your soul into it, and then you don't want to leave.
Just encourage them to make that leap if they're ready for it.
Fantastic.
So you will make mistakes in hiring, period.
Be honest with yourself.
Give yourself the grace to make the mistakes.
That's how we grow.
That's how we learn.
What we found is being very focused on our company and our team values in the hiring process has helped us to minimize the churn that we have had.
But in every job that I've had, I've made mistakes in hiring, and I've made some good hires as well.
But it's having the grace to say, I made a mistake and we need to help this person out, or you know what, there's sometimes, it's a hard cut.
So it's that honesty with yourself, and it's the integrity that your team sees when you're willing to make those tough decisions as a leader that gives you the continued credibility and belief and the excitement that they want to come work with you and go build a brand with you.
That concludes another episode of the Community Call Podcast.
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