Breaking Into Convenience: A Guide for Beverage Brands

How do you know if your brand is ready for the convenience store channel?

Hopefully, the brand or the the product has had a couple iterations before, and what I mean by that is, you know, you're not launching in the convenience channel typically on faith, or hey, I've tried this this recipe out once. Most brands are going to try and produce their product multiple times, change their packaging multiple times before they get right. You know, like any business or any brand, hopefully a brand is ready for convenience after you know bit of of tinkering. But probably the most important thing is is do you have a way to get your product to store efficiently? Like if the answer to that is no, then it's going to be a really hard Hard path, you know. Most buyers are are not looking to build a brand outside of their normal distribution, you know, route to markets that they already have established. They're not going to carry your product just because they like your product and have to set up a whole new distribution method. So, you know, distributions in every any beverage company is going to be paramount. You don't want to create an extra roadblock. So let's say that your distribution is taken care of. You got a a fairly good distributor that isn't extra work for a buyer to have to do extra legwork, and so that you check that box. You know your product has to obviously turn on shelf, and so knowing kind of what the at least minimum thresholds are for what we call VPO volume per outlet is really important to know, and it varies by category. You know, I would say the water category and energy and soda categories have higher VPOs than a juice, a tea, or even a kind of a new, you know, new age type product. So knowing that ahead of time is super important, and you can ask that question. Buyers will, most of them, be pretty open to tell you what the threshold is. And again, you may have already done some, you know, initial, you know, pioneering terms of you know getting your product in a single store, a couple stores here or there. So you may have a feel for that already. Hopefully, you do. You know, the the other part of it is just the financial metrics. You know, do you have a product that is invoiced properly at a level that can satisfy the margins needed to be you know, financially viable. You know, is your retail knowing the markups that a distributor is going to have, the retailer is going to have that retail on shelf? Is that going to be, you know, in the ballpark to make your product move? And then you've obviously has to have a promotional schedule behind it to, you know, to just kind of get that trial, that initial trial for your product. You know, there is no perfect scenario for a brand to enter the convenience store channel. You know, it's got to appeal to the right demographic, knowing that you know it's a very different demographic than a grocery store where you. That shopper is pantry loading, or you know, call it a natural grocery store like a Whole Foods or Sprouts, where very label conscious. So, you know, does your does your product kind of fit? We'll call it middle blue collar America. If the answer to that is yes, then you're you know you probably have a much better fighting chance.

Is the convenience store channel right for every beverage brand?

There there are certain times when brands it just doesn't make sense to enter the convenience store channel, and you know some of the criteria can be obvious. Some of it maybe maybe not so much. I would just start by saying that Comus Channel is typically a single serve trial channel. So if your only you know package is a you know take home variety pack, that's going to be really difficult. I've seen other brands struggle when they are doing really well in the natural specialty channel. You know, very super clean ingredients and things like that, and they think that's really just going to translate over to the convenience store channel. Just know that that consumer is not as label conscious as as kind of some of those other, we'll call our higher end type channels. So that's definitely a watch out. And then you know a little bit about the distribution channels of business. Sometimes the distributors that service you know other channels of business just do not service convenience stores well, or they don't service them at all, you know. Just coming to mind, you know. Khe UNFI are really good distributors for natural grocery, but frankly, just don't have the frequency or the the reach to to enter the convenience store channel effectively. You know, I would say with exception that that is the case. But yeah, there's there's there's a whole host of of reasons not to enter the convenience store channel. But you know, if you want to get trial on your brand, the convenience channel is a great trial or great trial channel for that. The cost of entry for a consumer, you know, is probably less than four or $5 to try your product, which is great, and that's why so many brands covet, you know, you know, getting in the community store channel in a meaningful way. I would always caution folks to realize that you're talking about 155,000 doors in the community store channel, and it's really hard to to go after that channel widely. So I'd always I would always caution folks to be like: start small, start targeted, go deep in those regions or those key retailers that you know you think are gonna kind of get the the halo effect for your brand to to springboard it into a much larger region or or or market.

What costs should brands expect when launching in C-Stores?

All right, let's talk a little bit about budgets to launch because that's super important. You know, you're going to show up to the buyer's office and they're going to expect certain things. They're going to have a whole host of programs that they likely have already developed that you can tie into. But the basics are really don't change very much in in the beverage business. Most categories are going to have to you know you're going to have to be able to provide a 40 to 50% margin or even greater in some cases. So you need to be prepared for that. You need to know kind of the the markups involved in terms of the distributors that you're involved with, and they can vary very widely. Wholesale grocery distributors like a McLean, a Coremark, they're going to mark most of those products up 10 to 15% Where a DSD network, which could be a beer network, it could be a non-alcoholic network as well. Those markups are typically much higher because the cost of doing business for them is higher, probably 25 to 30% So know that those margins are built in. But the other part of just any sort of budgeting is trade spend, and there's probably four or five key buckets that you have to think about or consider when you put a program together, certainly there's slotting dollars that'll be asked, especially in the cooler. It's very competitive. You're competing against Coke, Pepsi, and KDP out there that have some pretty pretty deep pockets. So slotting funding can can vary greatly, but typically the average rule, you know, of thumb is one free case per facing per flavor, so that's kind of a general rule. Some of the larger, more well-established retailers have much higher slotting because they have higher VPOs that can kind of warrant it. But generally speaking, that one case per per item is is standard. And then you have to budget for promotional trade spend, and you know, typically in the convenience store channel, the most operators go with a two for program. So, if your product is say 299 retail, you're going to probably promote it at two for five level, or you may have an even deeper promotional level at a two for four. And so, you know, buyers are going to expect you to most of the time make them margin whole. So if they're making 45% on an everyday retail, they're going to look for that same 45% on promotion, and this is a negotiation. So just know that. The other part of it is you know you're going to have to obviously some marketing dollars, possibly specific for that chain, and a lot of them have nowadays have online apps that they use, pretty standard to you know offer maybe some deeper deals for their online or app-driven customers, you know type of thing. So, and then you just have your kind of standard marketing. You know, maybe you have a influencer, maybe you have a sport team figure that's local to that that retailer that you can you know bring to the table. Those are all kind of added things. I did speak earlier about just some homegrown programs that these retailers have on their own, and you'll typically it'll be like ordering off a menu. You'll get kind of you know from soup to nuts, kind of the smaller spends all the way to the larger spends, and typically you've got to be kind of chain wide at that point for those things to kick in or apply. And you can imagine that the the larger, more established vendors, you know, they get kind of first dibs at the larger programs because they're spending more more dollars already and have a lot more shelf space than you do. So, you know, typically most brands or most retailers look at it from a dollars per case spend.

Can the convenience channel be profitable for an emerging brand?

Convenience stores typically will have a higher, we'll call it initial spend to to get placed on shelf in that first, we'll call it 18 months, and then it kind of. I'll say normalizes because you're kind of past that point of the high spend of slotting dollars that a lot of other channels don't have. Certainly, grocery has slotting dollars attached to it, but some of the larger retailers and other mass channels like you know Walmart and Target have gotten away from that, so that's that's helpful. Convenience ultimately, longer term, should be a channel that you look at as one that you can you can make money in and better margin in than other channels longer term once they're established. But it's getting over that initial hump, and and don't feel bad. Most brands, you know, in the beverage space, lose money for the first three to four years. That's the bad news. You know, as you scale, there's efficiencies, and convenience is is a channel that most brands, you know, as they're in their I'll call it teenage years, growing and maturing, they want to grow that channel because it is profitable. Whereas some of those other channels, because markups aren't as high for those retailers, they tend to kind of squeeze brands, and you know that that squeeze doesn't go away. Where you know convenience stores, you know they typically are making 40 to 45 plus margins, very healthy, and you know they look for brands that can help sustain that. So if you're one of those brands that can get over the hump and continue to kind of spend efficiently, and again, you're as a brand, you're always evaluating, you know, spend. You know, did that program work? And that's probably a key thing. Is that a lot of brands spend, but they don't look back and say, "Was that really a good spend? And so, if you have the ability to kind of measure and do a kind of post mortem on on programs to see, you know, going forward, you know, is this something going to duplicate, or do I need to tweak this thing to make make a better spend happen? That that'd be pretty advisable.

When is the right time to start pitching C-Store retailers?

I would start just by saying most convenience store review cycles start in the late summer, early fall, and then you you kind of the buyers kind of gather all their data, meet with all the vendors through late October, and then things go quiet for a little while through the Thanksgiving, you know, beginning of December, and then decisions start to get made, and then ultimately planograms get released and physically get put in the beginning of Q1 all the way through Q2. So that's generally the timeline for selling, and sometimes though you know other channels, they obviously have their own timelines. Don't always mirror up that way, but most beverage timelines do, regardless of channel, because they all want to take advantage of you know the summertime selling, which is when beverages really crank up.just because you have success in one channel doesn't mean you're going to have success in convenience. And you know, we talked earlier about when the right time to enter convenience is, but when you start to see success, and you've got VPOs that are meeting or beating threshold, and in other channels and other buyer meetings, you know, you start to get a sense that you know they're looking for me to say what's next, what's what's the next flavor? Is there a line extension here? You know that type of thing. That's a really good sign that you know. I think we talked earlier, like mainstream America is is kind of the the center target for convenience. So if you're selling well in grocery, if you're already developed and you've got club packs, a variety pack that's doing well, you know if you're if you're in a market, you know if you've kind of really honed in on let's say the Northeast, and you're seeing really good results across you know your first two or three channels of business, and you're not getting kicked out you know after 12 months, then you know it's probably the right time to to approach convenience stores. Again, I would always walk before you run. I would find. The key influencer in that market, and you know they're pretty well known. I mean, you can you can go around the U.S. and and pretty much can pencil them in terms of the Northeast, Southeast, you know, West, Midwest, kind of the key influencer convenience store operators. And there's probably two or three of them in each region, and you know if you if you get into one or two of them, you're doing really well, and that that will have a halo effect for some of the smaller, the 10 store, the 20 store operators that surround them, because they do look to them for for guidance and see what what the early adopters are putting into their stores.

How do you choose the best C-Store chains for your first launch?

So, if if your brand is you know regionally based, you're going to find that there's some key convenience store operators in them. You know, I can think of some if we kind of go across the country and just look at it by region, starting in the Northeast. You know, Noria is a great operator, really innovative. Have a great food service business. Look for brands that to kind of jumpstart their business, regardless of channel or sorry, regardless of category. They've been a great story. They started as a a shell MSO operator way back in the in the 1990s and have grown to be actually even more of a Northeast region player. They're now expanding in the Southeast. So I would I would contact them if your if your brands in the Northeast. I think they're a great operator to to start with. They like to kind of incubate and grow brands for sure. You know, down in Florida, you know it's a very chain-driven business with 711 and Circle K being the two dominant players there. Circle K is is a divisionally based chain. They do have national programs, but they have I believe 14 divisions now. So three in Florida that operate independently that you have the ability to sell in locally there to a certain degree. Gate Petroleum is another one that I think is really a good good spot. About an 80 store chain down there that you know traditionally has has wanted to be first to market with brands that are innovative as well. So, I would definitely want to contact them for if I was a new brand. As we kind of go westward into Texas, you know, obviously that's 711 headquarters, and they've got their Brands with Heart program. They also have their seven ventures team. So if you're a new beverage brand that's looking for funding, they have a process that you can go to and be part of to possibly get funding for your your brand. And obviously, that comes with the ability to to get kind of jump started in their network. Another great operator is TXB, just north of Dallas. There, really well-run stores have great food service programs as well. So obviously, some great tie-ins with beverages there. They're always looking for kind of new to market as well. If we go northward, you know, up into the the Midwest area, there's a couple chains that I I think are great operators. I think Family Express has done a great job throughout the years. One unique thing about them is they self distribute. They've got their own DC, so you know you don't need to worry about creating a network of distributors, they have it, and a lot of times they look forward to dealing with brands that they can they can ship through their their warehouse. Similarly, Quick Trip with a K, just kind of one of the highest volume per outlet chains in the U.S. today. Again, they also have their own warehouses and self-distribute if needed, but they they merchandise flawlessly. If you ever been in one of those stores, you can tell that they they're a community store, a rural. You know they act they act more than just a convenience store. They're a bit like a grocery store in certain parts of their network, tons of fresh food, tons of bakery. So great, great ability to tie in with beverages as well. If we keep going westward, off to we'll call it the Arizona Southwest of the world. Quick trip with a. With a queue based out of Tulsa, but have markets throughout the U.S. dominate in the Arizona market. Again, another another operator just executes flawlessly, innovative, and extremely high VPOs, and and a great food service business. So that's a common theme: is that most of these operators have great food service and high VPOs, and from an execution perspective, you know you don't need to worry about them. That you basically get product to their store, and they they take care of the rest. And then finally, out west in the Pac Northwest, I think a plaid pantry, longtime convenience store operator. Again, love to love to be innovative. Love to be first to market with things. Has a consumer base that I would say is a little more sensitive to ingredients and better for you products as well. And then I would I'd also have Extra Mile based out of California, as well as expanding other markets, but you know, a lot of stores executes great, has the legacy Chevron fuel brand behind them, and has done a great job, you know, running corporate sites as well as their franchisees. So that's that's a that's a travel around the U.S. in terms of my recommended list of operators to or retailers to kind of start your business with.

How should you choose a distribution strategy?

All right. Let's talk a little bit about distribution, which is probably you know the most important or one of the most important decisions and things to consider. A lot of times, it'll be referred to as route to market. You know how your product literally gets from your production facility to a distributor, and then ultimately to the to the convenience store that you want to service. You know, if you could pick one, you would probably pick a Coke, a Pepsi, a KDP, because you know those those networks are reliable, tried and true. But the reality is that you know a new brand is not going to get on those trucks until you're likely 100, 234, $700 million brand. So knowing that's the case, you really have, I'd say, three different options if you're kind of a better for you product, you know, really clean ingredient. You're, you know, you've got very focused consumer and convenience store operator that is is like minded. Kehe and Unify is an option for you as long as those those retailers are still, you know, are currently using them, you know, it's hard to ask a convenience operator to carry your product if they're only, you know, getting your product from a that one distributor. So there's a need to have, I guess, a little bit of mass there. One one other entity that a lot of brands used in the early days is called Dot. They're based out of Missouri, and they literally service and go everywhere. And the the benefit of using.is that you can ship them one pallet, one case, and the retailer can order one case of your product, and they will get that that that delivery consistently. You will pay an upcharge for it, but for a lot of newer brands, it's well worth it. And again, not all convenience store retailers use DOT, but a fair amount do, and and it is a it is a solution. The next kind of route to market was we'll call it grocery warehouse. So these are your McLean's, your Cormarks, HD Hackneys, SA Abrahams of the world. These are either national or regional in scope. They've got, you know, I'm thinking about McLean and Cormark probably have 35 different DCs around the U.S. and they have both-we'll call it refrigerated warehouses as well as ambient-and they also have the ability to consolidate shipping, which is really important for newer brands. Instead of shipping to all 35 of their DCs, where the minimum order quantities may be a pallet. Or four pallets, you can ship to three or four of their DCs, and they will cross dock it for you. I was a McLean customer for twice in my career. I had no idea that that program existed before I became a supplier. So just know that that that can be very helpful from a consolidated shipping point of view, but again, these grocery wholesalers I would say are more transactional distributors. They they are point A to point B. They will get your product there. They don't do a whole lot of selling. They do have programs that can help push your product, but generally speaking, it's not their expertise, so just keep that in mind. And then, lastly, it's it's your true. We'll call it DSD direct store delivery distributors. These are beer wholesalers. They are non-Elk distributors as well. You know, ones that come to mind. You know, up in the Northeast are Polar distributing, they both they both produce product as well as distribute and sell for you. Most, you know, I think you're going to know what beer wholesalers do. I mean, these are they're they're tried and true. These are your Bud and your Miller houses cores that are out there. You know, each week delivering. They've got folks that you know take orders as well as merchandise. That's the benefit of of these DSDs is that they have arms and legs that can put your product product up and as well as order it. the The hind the you know the I say the Achilles heel of is that there are probably 20 to 40 brands on their trucks, and so trying to get share of mind, being a new brand is the biggest challenge. And you know, the investment you'll have to make will be in people to kind of work directly with this DSD network.

What metrics determine whether your product stays on shelf?

All right, let's talk a little bit now about what velocities make sense, or what really will keep you on shelf in these community store operators. Being a new brand, you get a little bit of leeway, but not a lot. Knowing that there's kind of a, we'll call it a one-year clock that is ticking once your brand goes in. Generally speaking, if your product can do one unit per store per day, that meets threshold. With that said, it varies greatly by which door or category you're in. If you're in the water door, the premium water door; those velocities are going to be much higher. If you're in the soda door, the energy door, those velocities will be higher. If you're in the juice, the tea, dairy, you know, or if you're an item that has a higher retail ring, you'll get a little bit of leeway because you know they definitely look at units per store per day, but also dollars per store per day, and and ultimately gross profit dollars per store per day get get looked at for sure. You have to know who your competitors are, kind of what their velocities are. You know, I would not go in blindly for not a lot of money, you can get our Sarcana report or an NIQ report for your category. You know, you can get it once a quarter for probably three to $5,000. It's money well spent, so you know kind of what your buyer is looking at and kind of what the whole market looks like. A very concise way, so you know that that's why so many brands out of the gate, you'll see that the the playbook they have is they go pretty heavy promotionally out of the gate, and that's really to drive trial. And if your product tastes great, you know as great as you think it tastes, the consumer will get that, and that's that's ultimately you know you don't want your product just to sit there to look pretty on the shelf. It's got to it's got to be tried, and you know really the biggest best measure that I think a lot of brands can kind of look at is repeat rates. So you may sell that first bottle or can, but does the consumer come back and and buy your product a second or a third time, and that's really compelling information for the buyer to have. So if you can, if you can get that information, or most retailers don't have that themselves. It's really a third party, you know, service that kind of measures that. There's a couple different ways they do it, but repeat rates are really, really important. The retailers will look at their average units per day and their average dollars per day as as kind of standard measures. So know that that's that's just that's going to happen. But if you can have some additional information, whether it's existing from other channels of business, other retailers, or be able to get it from you know this specific retailer through the reporting, that's that's really crucial.

How should you structure promotions in the convenience channel?

Most brands, you know, when they get on shelf, are going to need to promote pretty aggressively to drive trial. Most brands have what they consider a trade letter. You'll be asked for a trade letter from from your retailer partner, and what it does is it lays out the different levels of promotion as well as the frequency and depth. So, you know, generally speaking, you don't want your product on promotion deeply the entire year. Some retailers will require you to have a 52 week two for program. Other ones will have you know less weeks, but want deeper. Where they'll say you know I want to buy one get one for three months out of the year, and it's really up to you to determine kind of what your your frequency and your depth are as you have those conversations. You know, I would, I would have, I would caution most brands to have a trade letter that is consistent across the channel of business that you're in. So you're not, you know, giving one one pricing to to another. You know, it should be consistent. But generally speaking, you're going to be asked to provide that trade letter. Have a number of weeks on there that you're willing to promote at a certain level. Most brands have what I call a P1 and a P2 level. P1 is just your kind of standard offer for let's say you're going to run a two for five. P2 is more aggressive. You know that's your two for four level. And then there's a P3 in certain cases, and those are typically app-driven offers where you know you're much more aggressive, and typically you launch this way. And again, those those take rates, you know, that's the rate of you know the percentage that the the consumer you know takes advantage of that offer are much lower in an app, but they're deeper and more aggressive, and so you can kind of measure, you know, the effectiveness of these and and make you know future decisions if you know if you want to go deeper, you want to you know add more weeks or cut back more weeks in a certain certain level, but you will be asked for that, and again, you can determine what's best for your brand. The retailer will guide you. You know they're going to want to make as much money as they can, so just know that they have vested interest in in turning your product, but they want to do it at a profit. And sometimes those those trade offs to go deeper aren't worth it. So just just keep that in mind.

What can brands do beyond promotions to drive sales?

Besides just running promotions, there's other levers that you can pull and probably should pull to to really drive the brand. I've seen a whole host. You know, some that are sometimes the more creative the better. Sometimes if you get a little too creative, it it confuses the customer. You know, traditionally you'll see either trip incentives or wearable incentives. That are advertised, you know, on coolers and things like that. I would say those have limited, limited executional and limited impact. I think those almost kind of just get glazed over. What I have seen successful is when there's there's a a community event or there's some sort of well known festival type of thing that the retailer is partnered with, and so you're you're already kind of partnering with something that the retailer supports, and if if you can bring you know that sponsorship or a deeper level, that's really effective. I've seen it done really well with NASCAR races. Again, with food and wine festivals, I've seen it done with professional sports teams when you've got you know a player that's on that team or a meet and greet setup. Those are things that I think are value added to the retailer that you know other brands that they you know have just can't or aren't aren't willing to do. So, if you've got something in your back pocket like that, I think that's that's admirable, and it kind of it it kind of takes you out of just the the average, you know, you know, check the box type of of promotions.

What should you do after your product gets on shelf?

A lot of times, when brands, you know, try and sell themselves into retailers, and they and they they get on the planogram, they think that the game is over. In my mind, it's just beginning. Congratulations, you're on shelf. But you know, I would say first and foremost, are you really on shelf, and are you going to stay on shelf? So you know the planogram that you're issued is isn't really worth the paper it's printed on. Is a saying that that's out there. You've got to make sure that when physically, when the planogram happens, that you actually get the the space that you're supposed to. There's a lot of forces out there that can make that not happen. The same is true for three to six months down the road. You may have gotten half a shelf in a in a planogram, and in your store visits, you see you're you're down to two facings in most of your stores. That is that is not that is not abnormal. You know, you've got to have a way to make sure that the space that your your contractor you agree to maintains itself. So, just know that there's forces out there that may make that not happen. So, you've got to be able to either have a third party, or you know, do route rise with your distributors to make sure that it happens. But let's say that the physical space, you know, is there and exists. You know, you've got to make that product turn to threshold or better. So obviously, knowing, you know, measuring, I would say, minimally on a quarterly basis, hopefully on a on a monthly basis, how your product is moving and doing. And if it's not, then you have to react pretty quickly. The selling period is, you know, we'll say six months. The key selling period is six months in terms of what you're going to be evaluated on. So, if you don't see things that you like from a movement perspective, you got to act pretty quickly. And most of those lead times to affect, you know, a promotional schedule or anything like that, minimally or two to three months out. So if you see things early on that you don't you don't like, you've got to react really really quickly. And again, you can pull levers like you know using their app app driven functions to go deeper with programs. You know you can use display incentives, and that's either for the retailer and/or for the distributor to give them incentives to get you know displays built. If you know if your product's going to be you know sell well on an ambient display, or you know get additional placement in open air coolers, which typically those open air coolers are less planogrammed on a consistent basis. You may be able to pick up space there as well, especially if your product pairs well with food or other healthy items. So, you know, it's a constant battle. You know, you're never done. You're always being evaluated and know that you know the review cycle is probably only six months away, anyway. So you've got to make sure that the numbers look right.

How should you decide which market to expand into next?

Hopefully, your best region is going to be the region that you're launching in, or that your home region is in, because you've got the most resources, the most eyeballs on your brand. Eventually, you know, when you see success, it's going to be time to move on to to the next region. You know, I can think about one of the brands that launched in the 1990s. It was Red Bull, and they they started in Santa Monica, which was a strange at the time, was a strange place to start, and then they moved on to Austin, and then their third market was Boston. And I liked that strategy because it was a west to east strategy on a new brand, a new segment that had never existed. Energy drinks. No one knew really what those were in the U.S. but they went to markets that were college markets and not major markets. And so, if they first off, they had you know they went to markets where they thought consumers would be willing to try their product, mostly college students, but they weren't major markets. And so, if they had made a mistake in Dallas or New York or Miami, that would have been a big mistake. So they they kind of learned early, and again, I like I like the the west to east and the smaller market strategy there. I think the same is true for for most brands. Whether you're doesn't matter where you start, but eventually you're going to have to have a stronghold in the east and a stronghold in the west, and you know they call it the the smile in the U.S. So California, Texas, Florida, they're huge markets, tons of tons of consumers, tons of population, and really good weather markets as well. So the Northeast tends to be more expensive to do business with because of the cost of real estate. Just it seems like the cost of entry is much higher in the Northeast. So unless you're based in the Northeast, I would strongly recommend kind of that, that I'll call it the the lower U.S. strategy of, you know, California, Texas, Florida. I would add Chicago to that eventually as well. I think it's a great market as well. But let's say if you're started in Texas, you know, and you want to branch out to Florida, knowing the the keychain, you know, retailers there are super important, and knowing that because they're larger chains, the budgets go up as well. So you've got to be funded properly. You don't want to run out of money, and that's that's the the balance with with beverages and the growth, you know, trajectory is you know it takes it takes money to grow your business. That's true of anybody, but especially in beverages where you're gonna you've got to spend money pretty much at every level. So hopefully, in your home market, you've kind of honed that formula. You do get a break being a new brand, but at the end of the day, those buyers are comparing you against all the established brands as well. So that that small brand break or whatever you want to call it doesn't last long, especially as you grow, it only gets tougher. So there's no magic formula to where you should go in terms of what regions, I would say just look at it with your eyes wide open, knowing the different cost structures that are out there, and I do believe it's it's a little more cost effective to to go into some of these kind of better weather markets. And again, if you go into some, you know, we'll call it second second tier cities, as opposed to the the capital or the highest population centers, it may be a better route to market.