[00:00:05] Melissa Traverse: Hello, and thank you for joining. I am Melissa Traverse, Director of Community here at BevNET Anosh, and I am excited to welcome you to the NonBase Podcast, a podcast built to help CPG owners and operators navigate growth challenges and grow more profitable businesses. Be sure to check out nonbase.com, BevNET's platform made for the CPG community, where you can find this episode and so much more. Today we are joined by Rachel Krupa, founder of the Goodsmart and Krupa Consulting. Rachel has a unique view of the CPG world because she sees brands from multiple angles as a retailer, a curator, advisor, investor, and a brand strategist. Through the Goods Mart, she works closely with emerging food, beverage, and wellness brands, not only in a small format retail setting, but also through curated placements in hotels, corporate pantries, coffee shops, and other non-traditional channels. She also brings years of experience helping brands build awareness and credibility through Krupa Consulting, where she's worked across CPG, hospitality, wellness, and lifestyle. We are going to talk about the GoodSmart and its expansion, what makes an emerging brand stand out, what retailers and curators are really looking for, how brands can think beyond traditional grocery, and why operational readiness, storytelling, and repeat purchase matter just as much as getting the first. Yes. Rachel, it is so great to have you here. Thank you so much for joining me on the Non-Based Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you. As part of our audio check, our AV wizard, Ryan asks, you know, what people had for breakfast just as a way to get levels. And you said you didn't have time for breakfast. And after kind of going through that intro, I think it's obvious why you didn't have a chance to eat breakfast. You do, you do basically everything there is to do in this industry. I guess I like to be busy.
[00:02:11] Rachel Krupa: Or I don't know how not to be busy. I think it's more of a matter of that.
[00:02:15] Melissa Traverse: I think it's probably both of those things. For, you know, for the listeners out there who are new to your work, maybe new to GoodSmart, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, what the GoodSmart is, what you do through Krupa Consulting and, you know, what mission drives your work?
[00:02:32] Rachel Krupa: Thank you for the lovely introduction and all of that. And yeah, so I think to start it, it's always great to start with Cooper Consulting, my peer agency that is now 16 years old. And this is where it really all started. We focus on food and wellness brands, particularly CPG. So some of the clients we've launched, my first client was Designer Way. So we were talking about women's protein powder in 2010. Brownie Brittle was one of our early CPG, I would say, darlings in the category. And then from there, we've launched everything from Goop and their Wellness Vertical. We work with Goop Kitchen right now. We launched Our Place, the Incredible Pans, Loonin Water that you're probably seeing everywhere right now. everywhere. Cloud Popcorn is also another client. So for us, it's really working with brands that we just are passionate about. And so we've been doing that for 16 years. And eight years into the PR agency, it was like there was this kind before it was 2018 so you just had this like merging of Whole Foods and this better for you natural category is like when it started to do this uptick of like you know we're at I don't know if we're at the peak or where we are at the top of the mountain right now but it was just starting to build and at that time there wasn't convenience stores or the world of just like curated shops that there are today. And it was more of like, how do we find a shop or convenience store? Because I love convenience stores and the community around it, but with these incredible emerging brands. So the GoodSmart started in 2018 in Silver Lake to be this place that was highly curated, all of the best emerging snack brands under one roof that was non-GMO, no artificial flavors, and colors just as a place where you could go and shop your values, but also discover and have fun.
[00:04:26] Melissa Traverse: And so since then, the Goodsmart has gone through a number of evolutions. You just opened the latest location that's in Brooklyn. Tell us a little bit about that latest opening and how you have so much more space now, right?
[00:04:43] Rachel Krupa: And we have double the space. I mean, our Soho location was 300 square feet. So this is 600 square feet. And we're at the base of an incredible development called the Williamsburg Wharf. And there's 600 apartments above and around us and multiple buildings still within the waterfront. So I'm overlooking right now the waterfront and looking into Manhattan. And so it's beautiful, but the community that we have is incredible. And so I would say this South Williamsburg location is the full breadth of what I've always imagined the Goodsmart to be. We have a little bit of everything. We still have our $2 drip coffee. We changed it to be John and Vinny's brew from LA with Canyon Coffee. We have our organic slushies. We updated it. Now we have a cold brew bar with Cumulus. And then we have all the snacks that you could ever imagine. And then we have grab-and-go with Alodoro sandwiches and Isles of Us, which is an incredible cafe and restaurant on the Upper East Side. And then we have Frozen, we've never had a freezer really. So we have a freezer, so we have Moomin Changs, we have Velfalka, we have like Nanas, like Empanadas, McDonald's ice cream, tons of beauty products and home products and fun things that I think show my personality more than anything where we have vintage snackware and we have vintage t-shirts.
[00:06:04] Melissa Traverse: Yeah. Tell me more about vintage snackware.
[00:06:07] Rachel Krupa: Vintage snackware. It's like chip bowls from the 70s and the containers that are like chips, nuts, olives that are stacked on top of each other. We have vintage mugs from the 80s. And so it's things that complement what you're buying. So we have that. And we have vintage, our merch is vintage snack teas. So I sold my first tee yesterday was opening. Our opening was on May 13th, and I sold my first Spam t-shirt. We found a Spam t-shirt on Depop, and we sold a Spam t-shirt, and we have Kool-Aid. And so it's a celebration of just like all the food brands that helped us all get here today. But just it's, it's just fun. You know, we have a vinyl, we're playing vinyl, and we have a Miss Pac-Man machine. So it's, it's this, you know, wonderful fun space for the community to come into.
[00:07:00] Melissa Traverse: How can brands use placement at, you know, a place like GoodSmart as a real test and not just, you know, a credibility badge or, you know, a place to be seen? How do you see brands be able to use placement as something that can really jumpstart their growth?
[00:07:20] Rachel Krupa: Well, I think it's just through the past history, because we've been doing this for eight years. And I would say we were one of the first to have Ollipop on our shelf and look at Ollipop. And so I think early retailers like what we are, and there's a lot of them out there today, that we're a place for brands to kind of get their feet wet before they go into larger retailers. It's to test before they try. I like to say, we might be one of your first retailers, but you're going to learn so much. That's going to be what customers are saying about the front of your package. It's going to be price point. It's like, where should you live within a store? Are smaller, but who are your competitors or who's comparable? How do you do well? And then also, like, is it messaged clearly? Like, do people know it's a chip or should it be a cracker or should flavor be small font or larger font? And so I think that is where, like, small shops like ours are very valuable for early stage brands. But it's also we have a lot of people that come in just to discover. And so there's a lot of discovery in there. Sanso found one of their first investors from shopping at the GoodSmart. And so we have tons of those stories that are constantly coming in. With the GoodSmart, we also do a lot of press. And so we've done Today Show segments or I've done Today Show segment where brands sold $30,000 of snacks in a day. And so for us, it's how do we become this person that in this placement that does more than just you know, have brands on their shelf, but we can do so much more to expand their reach to get into more hands.
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[00:09:08] Speaker 1: Head to bevnetlive.com to register. They'll talk about what it really takes to build clean label brands that drive trial, repeat purchase, and sustainable growth, from formulation and sourcing to branding, retail, and operations. Sign up for free at Nombase.com slash podcast.
[00:09:40] Melissa Traverse: You're also talking about the terms that you offer brands when they, you know, jump on the shelf of the goods mart. Can you explain those? Because they are different than many traditional retailers who really can charge obviously so much money in slotting and trade spend.
[00:09:59] Rachel Krupa: Yeah, it was just something that just didn't feel right with me from the beginning is to charge brands. Because for us, it's our goal is to elevate these young emerging brands. And by doing so, we want to make sure that everyone can be on the shelves that we like. And so it's just more of how do we help them? And how do we utilize the skills that I've had for the past 23 years of being in PR and the relationships to really like, help them. There's so many challenges within the food space. The food space is amazing, and the CPG world is so incredible, but it's hard work. It's one of those things that everyone's always asked, like, do you want to start your own brand? I'm like, no, never. Like, brand founders are their own, like, incredible, beautiful, like, you know, human, because it takes a lot of work, and things are not within your control, that we want to be the one thing that is in their favor, pushing them forward, instead of holding them back.
[00:10:55] Melissa Traverse: You know, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised to hear, you know, a year or five years down the road of you turning that on its head. When I think of opening a retailer, I just, I just die thinking about it. It just seems like such an overwhelming prospect. How did you go from PR strategist to opening and owning a retail location? That sounds like, I mean, a big jump and a very difficult one.
[00:11:25] Rachel Krupa: It was, but not because we also worked with a lot of restaurants. Before I started my own company, I worked for agencies that we did openings of nightclubs and restaurants. When you're part of that opening PR strategy, you understand the process, not the inner weeds. Once I opened the first store, I was like, I actually don't know that much, but you just know who to ask. I think that's where I was a little bit fortunate to be able to be like, okay, McConnell's ice cream founder, who is your best contractor in LA? You know, we worked with Thrive Market. So it was like a friend that worked at Thrive Market being, can you help me with my operations? And Alex Duong is the best in that. And so for me, it was like, it sounds so Like, how do you do PR and then a retail store? But again, it's like the relationships and the connections that you have. And it was kind of like, hey, can you help me? Can you help me? And it's just a PhD in retail and business, but through learning from those that are experts in the field.
[00:12:25] Melissa Traverse: Well, you know, you've just launched the new location of the GoodSmart and there are so many founders out there, probably some who are listening right now, who have either just launched their brands or are, you know, really soon after that launch. You've seen so many brand launches and I'm sure that you've helped so many brands launch. What separates a brand with real staying power from one that's mostly riding that sort of launch hype? You know, what are some of the early signals that tell you that a product has the potential to really drive that repeat purchase and long-term success?
[00:13:01] Rachel Krupa: taste, taste, taste, taste, you know, I think everyone is always going to come back to something if it tastes incredible. And then I think there's also the perseverance of a founder. You are going to be, you know, launching and you're going to get all this attention. And then at some point another brand is going to launch and they're going to get the attention. And so it's not for, what is it, the fate of heart, you know, in the sense where there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of just, you don't have to just be, You know persistent and really get through it There's gonna be hard times and so it's the founders that can get through those hard times and like know that You know a very smart person once said like food should not be scaled It should be spread because you have to spread your message And so that is like the founder after a really poppy launch like how do you continue to spread if you don't have the dollars? knocking on doors, dropping off product. It's the hustle, you know? And it's the hustle, I think, is what most people, when they have an exit or they're moving on to something else, they hustle their hardest. That's always, I feel like, the story that you hear. hustle and taste. You know, you're always going to go back to a cookie if it tastes good. If it doesn't taste good and it's a beautiful package, why would you go back?
[00:14:20] Melissa Traverse: Well, certainly that spreading is oftentimes via channels like direct-to-consumer and retail, but you actually help brands with some non-traditional channels like hotels, corporate pantries, coffee shops, those kinds of things. How should brands think about these non-traditional channels compared with traditional grocery?
[00:14:44] Rachel Krupa: I like to say, again, like our mission is how do we get these young emerging brands in the hands of more people? And it was really during the pandemic that a friend was opening up a hotel in upstate and he was just like, will you help me curate my mini bar? I want all local brands. I want them to have a sustainability angle to them. And I was like, ooh, this is fun. And that kind of opened up the gates and kind of like, ooh, this is actually something incredible because I like to say when you're in a corporate pantry, or you're in a hotel minibar, those are active participants in your snacking where all their eyes are on you because they're either getting it for free or they're on vacation or they're on a work trip where they have limited options. But the first thing, at least I do, is look in a minibar to be like, ooh, what can I find and discover? And so that's why we lean into it. And I think that's where brands are looking at it, where it's almost marketing, but it's also sales. And so it's looking at it as a version of mix where it's sales and marketing at the same time.
[00:15:46] Melissa Traverse: I think so many brands who may not be in these non-traditional channels yet are curious about what that mix of marketing and real revenue is. Do you have any guidance for, and it may be different channel by channel, you know, hotels may be completely different than cafes. If you need to talk about those separately, please feel free to do so. But how should brands think about those as, you know, marketing versus a sales opportunity?
[00:16:14] Rachel Krupa: Yeah, I think the way that we do it is a little bit different because we are not with the big guys and the compass and the canteens, which I think go through food buy, which is just a larger form of a distribution arm for the medias of the world and the Facebooks and the larger corporations. Where we like to go is very much from a corporate side in that middle level that they're probably utilizing staples or they're using Instacart or they're just figuring out how to get snacks in their office, but buying them at scale. And so I would look at brands just to kind of look at it as, you know, where is that medium? And you should 100% do sales, but margins are not that, you know what I mean? They're giving it away for free, so people are always looking for a better price because if it's given away for free, like, that's hitting the bottom line of companies and that's always probably one of the first things that go away. And then when you're in a hotel mini bar, you also have to realize, like, the margin is too there because they want to mark it up because either hotels are looking at it as, like, a revenue driver or they're looking at it as, like, here, this is a perk because you spent a lot on a hotel room. And so there's not a rhyme or reason to any of it that we found currently, but at the same time, but we do know everyone is stretched on margin. It's really about discovery. So I would say brands to be a little bit flexible in like their pricing because it is like a version of marketing. But again, like you are getting paid for your product and you still should be getting some margin.
[00:17:47] Melissa Traverse: Is there a point in a brand's trajectory when it makes more sense to go after some of these non-traditional channels? Like, you know, the first year that the brand's in market, does it make sense because it's a discovery vehicle? Or if they're not really in that many retailers around the hotel, does it not make sense? But then does it because people who are staying in the hotel probably aren't shopping in those grocery stores? How does that work out?
[00:18:12] Rachel Krupa: I would say, how is your operational system on the backside? It's all about the backside because you have to remember that everyone is relying on consistency of product. And so if you don't have a consistent product, then it's going to be hard. And then I would also say probably the first year, you're probably, it's a harder, you know, it's harder, you're doing multiple things. And so I would look at it a little bit later, even though I do know some brands are focused on more corporate because it is discovery and sales when you get to the larger scale side of it. So again I think it's your strategy but doing both at the same time can be hard. We do some things differently that we like to try to help the younger brands kind of go through it but within our process it's very much of what does your supply chain look like? You have to communicate with us, like, should anything start to, you know, you have a flag that we might be out of stock. Because again, like, it's not just us that is relying on your product. It is also the property that is relying on your product. So if you don't have the product, they are going to replace it. And if they like it more, or if it's a better price, like getting back in when product is available might be hard. And so you only have one first chance, I think, with everyone. You have one first chance to have yourself shine. And so make sure it's the right time.
[00:19:36] Speaker 2: Mark your calendar. Nosh Live is back December 3rd and 4th in Los Angeles. Join packaged food founders, buyers, investors, and operators for two days of product discovery and conversations focused on what's next. Early registration pricing is available now. Head to noshlive.com to register.
[00:19:53] Melissa Traverse: For the brands out there who are looking to break into these channels, is it Krupa Consulting that they should reach out to? Is it through the GoodSmart? How would they?
[00:20:03] Rachel Krupa: Good question, because no one really knows. No, it is the whole corporate side. So the GoodSmart is physical retail store in Williamsburg right now. And we like to say it's our showroom of snacks showroom for discovery for our customers, but also for corporate. So it's something great when a food and beverage director can come in and actually see. the life of the store and say, ooh, this would be great in our mini bars, or ooh, our team would love this. So we like to say the store kind of acts as that showroom right now, but at the same time, the snacks that are in the store are part of our curation vertical. So it's this medium between the both, and the PR agency is PR agency that we work on. Clients, sometimes they cross over, but two separate companies.
[00:20:53] Melissa Traverse: And for brands out there who are interested in partnering with the GoodSmart, and I don't know why they wouldn't be interested, what's the best way for them to submit products for review?
[00:21:05] Rachel Krupa: On our website, we have a link that you can go in and just like, submit, we ask a lot of questions and we're also improving our systems. But again, for us, it's about understanding the founder story and who the founder is and the story behind it. And then we're going to want to try samples because again. we tested and tasted everything in our store and everything that we want to push because we want to talk about it intimately in the sense of we think it was like this. And again, the store now is acting as a flywheel for corporate curation because we're seeing in real time what people are gravitating towards, what they're saying that they like, what they don't like, and then utilizing that information to be smarter on the curation side so that when we do work with our corporate clients, we can say, who's your demographic? You know, here's X, Y and Z and then be able to use the information that we're seeing in real time in the store to help our curation be better.
[00:21:58] Melissa Traverse: Is there a way for brands to get some feedback from folks at the goods mart around how the consumers are receiving the product, what they're liking, not liking? Is there a way for brands to get feedback?
[00:22:11] Rachel Krupa: Once they're in our store, that's what we're working on. We're two days into the store. And so that is like, we have an incredible new store manager. And that's like something that we're really working on, on our side to be able to give that feedback. In a few months, we want to launch Bite Club, where we're actually, you know, having new brands come in monthly and be able to ask the incredible community in and around the store for feedback and like kind of do like, here's like our little like drop of the month of like the new brands, like come in and taste them and also give feedback because we think it's fun to do things. And this also gives the community an ability to talk about products and snacks before other people do. And so that's where we like to kind of live on that side. So working on it, working on a lot of things.
[00:22:59] Melissa Traverse: Certainly, certainly are. Okay, so through Krupa Consulting, you work with and have worked with so many mission-driven businesses on PR. You mentioned Goop Kitchen, Vital Farms, I saw on your past clients, Go Raw, McConnell's Ice Cream, all incredibly strong mission-driven businesses. How should emerging consumer packaged goods brands turn their mission into a story that really supports sales and retail interest and investor confidence, channel expansion, rather than just creating brand awareness?
[00:23:38] Rachel Krupa: I think everyone knows where you have a good mission. It just is who the brand is. Do you know what I mean? Instead of having a mission that is there to have a mission. And so I think that if you want to be a mission brand, not everyone is a mission driven brand. Just make it authentic, because I think authenticity is the reason why you want to do it. And I think that is more about utilizing it for sales and marketing. To be mission driven, you kind of have to have like at the base, and that's more of the foundation, because I think that is the authenticity that investors see, consumers can smell. And at the end of the day, you know, consumers are smart and savvy.
[00:24:18] Melissa Traverse: And, you know, as you're a brand out there in the world, I can certainly see how your mission would have to evolve and how it would evolve. How do you recommend that brands evolve their brand presence as their mission evolves so they don't kind of like lose the initial consumers, their core consumers who really resonated with what they were originally? You know, how do brands keep those original consumers as they continue to evolve their mission and increase their consumer base?
[00:24:48] Rachel Krupa: I think that's the joy of social media these days because you have to kind of take the consumer on the journey with you. And so as you're evolving, you're evolving and your consumers evolving with that. So it's not a, you know, it's kind of like there's this gray area that you're kind of like ushering to, or not even gray, it's just like, We're discovering ourselves and that's like what's beautiful about emerging brands because normally you're starting as one thing and you're going to keep that foundation, but things are going to evolve. But that's again, the joys of being able to capture your community and have them go along with you because they're on that journey with you. I would also ask for their input, you know, so it's not something that feels off because they're there supporting you for a reason. So tap into their thoughts and feelings.
[00:25:37] Melissa Traverse: To that point, certainly authenticity, the A word, but really like it is important and kind of like being honest on social media is something that's rewarded. So as you evolve your mission and as you evolve who you are, I'm sure that if you communicate that information through social channels, that your audience will be right there alongside you and hopefully applaud it.
[00:26:02] Rachel Krupa: I mean, it's like the fun part of it, you know? Not every brand has to be fully out there, and I think that's also part of understanding what your mission is or what your brand voice is. Because you do, again, it goes back to authenticity. Do what's authentic to you, and your customers are going to love that, you know?
[00:26:20] Melissa Traverse: So that brings me to another question and one that I think you are so uniquely qualified to answer because you really do see into consumer lifestyles in a way that not many people do. What are some trends that you're seeing now that either you think have real staying power or maybe you think they don't? Protein is everywhere. Fiber is everywhere. Are there any ingredients or macros? Tell me what you're seeing out there.
[00:26:50] Rachel Krupa: I mean, in the day that we've had the store open, people are 100% coming in for more protein. And looking at protein popcorn, looking at protein chips, they're not necessarily calling it out, but I'm seeing them buy it. So there's definitely that side of it. And I think that they've also been saying that they like clean protein, where normally it's like the protein has a lot of just added ingredients. So they're looking for clean protein sources. I would say the cleanest protein. is like jerky you know if you have a really good jerky that's protein to its tea. There's also like cloud popcorn where it is a snack but there's also protein so it is their olive oil product has olive oil there's dairy isolate it's Himalayan sea salt and regular sea salt. I think that's pretty much it and popcorn and they use butterfly kernels. So it's like the extra poofy one and it's beautiful. And so that I would say is more of a clean protein source because you know dairy isolate is dairy has protein. So that is like directly related to it. So it doesn't have all the extra things that you need for protein. And I think people are reading ingredient labels these days, and they actually want to understand what they're putting in their bodies. I think that's not something that's going to go away. I think it's only going to continue to bubble up. And I think there's just going to be different types of protein products that are going to hit the space. And at the same time, We haven't anyone asked really for fiber yet, so we'll see. More tea, I think tea based products are going to go continue to increase just because there's a lot more tea drinkers that I've noticed more than coffee. And I think that's also maybe I don't know if it's just where we're at or the team I have or as an age group. And I think candy, people are always looking at candy. And I think people are leaning a little bit more into real sugar versus the monk fruit stevia side of things, but just want less of it. And I don't think that's going to go away. And the one other thing that I think people are asking for is more flat products, not always bubbly because we've had this in this, this swell of bubbles for everything. And then sometimes you just want a really great refreshing drink that doesn't have a bubble in it. Um, and so those are really hard to find. That's like non-bubble without caffeine.
[00:29:15] Melissa Traverse: only so many bubbles your body can handle in a day. And to your point about sugar, we were just talking about on Taste Radio yesterday about Better Sour and how they transitioned from being a non-nutritive sweetened product to full sugar. So certainly seeing so much of that. I'm curious about creatine. Is that something you're seeing more of in the store or not quite yet?
[00:29:40] Rachel Krupa: We don't have creatine in the store. We're trying to do more snacks and things. We do have Symbiotica, the little sachets, and beekeepers, which I love for immunity, and people are buying those. But I think those are fun, more accessible, and you're just like, let's take it and go, versus powders and mixing of things. And so I think people are moving less from the powders of the big scoops, I think the little sachets still do well because I think people are putting them in their pockets more than anything and ready to go. But those little like, you know, the lipospheric packets are beautiful because you don't need anything but more of just like the kind of the roll up of it.
[00:30:22] Melissa Traverse: How about functional ingredients? Certainly we see them so often in beverage. We see them in powders, in supplements. And so many folks who are maybe putting aside alcoholic beverages, maybe not all of them, you know, maybe just trying to cut down are looking for functional ingredients that maybe they can feel sooner rather than later. So they feel something without necessarily having a drink. I'm curious, do you know kava, l-theanine, magnesium, anything that you're noticing right off the bat that's flying off the shelves?
[00:30:56] Rachel Krupa: Not as of yet, and I think for us, I'm a little bit more of like not it's hard to say like when I when people say functional you sometimes always want to do a little eye roll because what are the ingredients that are actually functional and like are the ingredients efficacious amounts within like the quantity of the ingredients or is it just a marketing label term of we're functional and so I think that's where sometimes functional gets a bad rep in the sense of there's a lot of things that are smoke and mirrors in regards of like actually are you going to feel it you know. But I do think there's a lot of brands that are looking into that now and they're being really cautious of like if they're going to say it they're going to actually put like the x amount of milligrams in so that your body can feel it. So I think that's really important when you're looking at functional products. It's not just marketing anymore that is actually going to be functional. But people are definitely talking about magnesium but I think there's still so much more that people need to learn about magnesium and the type of magnesium that is with digestion or that is with like calming of the nerve because like the different types of magnesium do something different. L-theanine is amazing for brain function and just like calming and easing, but sometimes people don't always feel it more immediate. The one thing I do think that I have seen more recently too, though, is sleep. A lot more people want, you know, calm and sleep, but they don't want melatonin. And so I think we're moving away from the melatonin side of sleep and then looking more at like valerian root and looking at passionflower and like lemon balm and more of those type of products that are calming your system without the melatonin effect.
[00:32:39] Melissa Traverse: Well, my favorite functional ingredient is caffeine. I do. So I can't wait to stop into the GoodSmart for a $2 drip coffee and just take a look around and see everything that you've built. Rachel Krupa, thank you so much for joining us from the GoodSmart and Krupa Consulting. It's been such a pleasure to hear about you, what you've been working on, and can't wait to see everything evolve.
[00:33:07] Rachel Krupa: Thank you so much for having me and this was fun. We're on day two of our opening and a little sleep deprived and anxiety and excitement all wrapped in one. And so this was fun, a little fun break from the boxes and product and all of the things that are the glory.
[00:33:27] Melissa Traverse: Well, if this is you, anxiety-ridden and sleep-deprived, then I am very impressed. Thanks again so much for joining us. And for everybody out there in the audience, thank you for listening to the NAMBES podcast, and we will see you next time.
