[00:00:05] Melissa Traverse: Hello, and thank you for joining. I am Melissa Traverse, Director of Community here at BevNET CPG Media, and I am so excited to welcome you to the NonBase podcast, built to help CPG owners and operators navigate growth challenges and build more profitable businesses. Be sure to check out nonbase.com, BevNET's platform for the CPG community, where you can find tactical content like this and so much more. Today's guest is someone many of you probably already know. Charlie New has been a familiar face on the BevNET stage for years, where he shared insights on retail trends, merchandising, and what it takes to succeed at Whole Foods Market. As global category merchant for refrigerated beverages, he oversees one of the industry's most innovative and competitive categories, making him one of the best people to talk to about where the market is headed and what brands need to do to win. Charlie, it is so great to have you here. I think probably everybody in our audience knows you already, but for anyone who doesn't know you already, can you give us a quick overview of your role at Whole Foods Market and what falls under your responsibility?
[00:01:18] Charlie New: Sure. Yeah. Well, let me start out by saying I'm super excited to be here and very honored. And I love BevNET and it's one of my favorite things that I do all year. So comp to top to you all. And yeah, my job is an amalgamation of many things, but if I could sum it up, I am the category merchant manager for refrigerated beverage, which includes a lot of different categories. But let's see if I can give you the full list. It's refrigerated coffee, tea, refrigerated juice, refrigerated functional beverage, and hot off the press just a couple of months ago is now soda and sparkly juice. So that's it. That's a new one on the docket. And I'd be happy to say more about what all that entails and what a day to day looks like. But I know I have plenty to talk about. So.
[00:02:20] Melissa Traverse: Yeah, no, let's, let's get right into it. What is your day-to-day look like?
[00:02:26] Charlie New: You know, I think the category merchant role really at any retailer, including Whole Foods can be sort of mysterious from, from outside the four walls of the retailer. And that's understandable why, um, I think ultimately if I had to describe what my day-to-day looks like. It is equal parts supplier engagement. So working with my supplier community, scaling from the largest brands in CPG to household names, to early development. hardly even in retail brands that are needing something completely different from me. And all of that is really in service to creating a cohesive and exciting, innovative experience for our customers and ultimately driving growth and driving newness and creating new reasons for our customers to come into our stores. So that entails a lot. It can be everything from new item development, co-development. It can be strategic promotional work. It can be something like putting up the silliest fires that you wouldn't expect on any given day-to-day, but that pop up all the time and everything in between. Then a lot of this work that is probably not as easily seen unless you're in the role is some of what I do is helping our organization evolve and grow and change and become better. And that's not always immediately supplier facing, but it can look like helping stand up better processes, being a mentor, hiring and development, everything that it takes to keep an organization relevant and tech savvy and improving.
[00:04:44] Melissa Traverse: Fantastic. It really is, again, such an honor to have you here. Our community is so excited to hear from you. I have collected questions from folks like Angie Maxx from Umma Juice, Sarah Stender Delaney from Cirilla, even some food brands, Kartik from Dusra. So again, it's such a pleasure to have you here. You talked a little bit about evolution and how you have a hand in that. As you look at Whole Foods Market today, what has changed the most internally recently? Is there anything that suppliers may not understand about how Whole Foods Market operates and what it prioritizes?
[00:05:23] Charlie New: Sure. Yeah, that's such a good question. And I think it's a question that's on the minds of many all the time, outside of the organization and inside the organization. Probably the most important thing to say here is that when you think about the DNA of Whole Foods Market, all of those priorities, all of the ways in which our brand as a retailer exists, we're doubling down. When there's curiosity around how an organization that's been around as long as ours and has been in many ways the disruptor throughout our industry, You want to know, are you still going to be that disruptor? And I can say quite confidently that that is true. Everything from our quality standards work to our environmental stewardship to thinking about how to raise the bar in animal welfare. I could go on and on. The things that we have been known for We are just as much representing and figuring out ways to do better than ever before. And if I were to highlight what is evolving, I would tell you the greatest evolution is just how do we execute better? And how do we reach more humans? Quite literally, how do we meet our customers in different in different parts of their life, both in a regional sense where you might be in rural Montana or in a sort of day-to-day customer habit experience. And a lot of that is about technology. It's about supply chain, thinking about the delivery and pickup initiatives that we have in the pipeline right now. It wasn't that long ago that you couldn't order cold brew and your favorite A2 creamer and have it on your doorstep in three hours. That's a very new way of existing in this world as a customer. So, I think the future is really bright and I'm excited about how we get an opportunity to be there for more people. Just a personal anecdote about me, I grew up in Oklahoma. And I can remember when we got our first Whole Foods and it was very, very exciting. And that's sort of my origin story actually into the company. But that moment still happens on a daily basis for people across the country. And so, I think we're pretty laser focused on that.
[00:08:33] Melissa Traverse: Yeah, Whole Foods Market is certainly the premier grocery store for consumers to find new and exciting products. You mentioned quality standards and environmental stewardship. I'm just curious, how important are things like regenerative, organic, non-GMO, and other standards or values today? And are there any of those that you find yourself prioritizing more now?
[00:09:03] Charlie New: That is something that is always a question to ask when you are developing a product or you're trying to enter into a specific segment or a specific category. The most important advice that I give to brands is you have to think most of all about what is specifically relevant to the space that you're in. And I'll give you a really good example of what I mean. So if you are potentially launching, say for example, I'm going to do a little like shooting from the hip on product development because it's a thing I enjoy doing. Let's say you're developing a a chocolate milk that is super premium, A2 milk with imported Belgian chocolate. Well, you have to ask yourself the question, What is the most important certification here? Is it organic or is it maybe actually fair trade chocolate? And is it also some sort of worthwhile call out about the quality of life that the animal had in producing this milk? Right. And so it changes from from space to space, category to category. If we're talking more broadly about macro trends, though, I do think that regenerative agriculture is here to stay and it's definitely something that is becoming more and more meaningful to our customers. Again, traveling back in time was something that perhaps just in general language, it was not something that people were familiar with. But as they've learned more and more about what that actually means, and as we're thinking more and more about how to be better to the planet, I think that this is really an important thing to our customers. It gets a little different in beverage, of course. It's an interesting thing to consider because it has a little bit of everything in it. It really gets nuanced when you when you start to talk about, OK, are we thinking about. Orange juice, are you thinking about prebiotic soda? You know. It's a tough one, for sure, and that this is a conversation I like to have with every single brand as we as we kick off.
[00:11:49] Melissa Traverse: And are there ways that you see brands calling out regenerative in a way that resonates with consumers? Like you said, most consumers may not understand what that means. I mean, a lot of folks in the industry might be challenged to explain exactly what regenerative means. Are there ways that you see brands call that out in a way that really works on shelf?
[00:12:13] Charlie New: You know, the hardest thing is capturing people's attention. And I talk about that a lot, the probably the. Most scarce currency that a brand has is attention span. We shop with our eyes, we're we're we're very sparingly picking up products and reading the romance copy, it's something that And maybe I'm not tuned into the psyche of the average person, so I would love for someone to challenge me on this and tell me if I'm wrong. But kind of, I find that the only time that we turn and read a package in the romance copy is when our internet's down. We're stuck somewhere where we have nothing else to read. We don't have service or something. You're in the car and you've lost service on a road trip and you're like, well, I guess I'll read about this cereal that I have here. Oh, I didn't know that. So, I think relying on a lot of language, like a sort of our customer being a student is the wrong way to go about it. And oftentimes this is about quick visual statements, really brief. Can you tell your story in one second or less in a way that the customer can tangibly understand what you're telling them? And that is very challenging to do. So it's not the easiest thing. It takes a strong marketing team. It takes really good customer data to be able to figure out how you do that on your package. But if I would say, when it comes to regenerative agriculture, if that is a really important part of your brand identity, telling that story is key.
[00:14:13] Melissa Traverse: So Whole Foods Market is evolving alongside consumers, of course. And there have been, I mean, there are always changes, and it's certainly no different right now. We have inflation, we have GLP-1s, just general changes in trends and what people are looking for. What changes in consumer behavior are you finding have the biggest impact on what shoppers are willing to pay for, pay a premium for, and maybe where they've become a little bit more selective?
[00:14:44] Charlie New: I would expect that every retailer is experiencing this in a different way. And that is actually, you know, in terms of category management and thinking about retailer strategy, every retailer should understand their pricing ladder and who it speaks to and who that customer is. And I think what's interesting at Whole Foods Market is that what I think what you would expect to see is people are trading down more to more opening price point items. And it was consideration for the fact that cost of living is up in a lot of different other elements of people's lives. And I think what's actually interesting is that there's been more of a bifurcation. So you see that in many ways, premium items are doing exceedingly well. And really what's key is that opening price point is also shooting up. So you have people who are walking into the stores and looking for those yellow tags, looking for the, you know, sort of standing in front of the aisle and going, that one's one dollar less that all of his jars, one dollar less than that one. I'll pick that one up. And then you have people who are still just coming into the stores, shopping for the most exciting items regardless of price point. So when it comes to what people are willing to spend a larger premium on. This is. Consistently animal based products, so dairy and meat and anything that And I think it's key to say that nothing in Whole Foods market is of a lower tier or lower premium. Everything is at a higher premium in terms of quality. It's more about I, when I, when I make this purchase occasion at this higher tier, I know that I'm getting, you know, every part of this, this story feels good to me. And, uh, every part of how this product was manufactured, uh, tells me. from the time that this animal came onto the planet to the time that I am now making this purchase, everything was how I needed it to go.
[00:17:25] Melissa Traverse: So you've just pulled the curtain back on consumer behavior and Whole Foods Market shoppers in terms of what they're looking for. Can you demystify the path into Whole Foods Market today from local foragers and regional teams to global category merchants? I know things are changing a little bit all the time. Can you lay that out for us?
[00:17:48] Charlie New: Sure, yeah. I think that is also on the minds of many. Let's actually demystify a little bit these two roles and how they coexist. Because I think if you understand that, you really understand the entire framework. And so let's talk about how I show up in my role and the decisions that I make. As the global category manager, at the end of the day, ultimately, I own the decision-making rights about what goes into the assortment and what doesn't. And that can be anywhere from all stores, the entire portfolio of Whole Foods Market stores, or that can be as small as five stores. What I'm doing when I work with my fellow forger is we're really working as a team. And as you can imagine in this industry, the amount of opportunities that exist with brands out there is exhaustive. It's impossible to even true food nerds who obsess over this stuff and go to every food show and have conversations constantly. It's impossible for them to get the breadth and scope of what's out there. And actually, some of my attention is diverted towards really the brands that already exist in Whole Foods and helping them succeed. And so at the forager level, They're doing a lot of really exciting work to be the eyes and ears of all sorts of categories and to get out into the marketplace and look for those early stage brands and those right on the cusp brands that are bringing something, the next big rocket ship. And they are exposed constantly to to that community. They're acting as a really excellent sort of filter for what is tangible and what is actually got legs and what what might in the future. But that the founder of the team on the brand might maybe needs more resources. They are the experts of of how things can move forward. And so For the brand, it probably is pretty challenging to figure out what's my entry point. Should I reach out to Charlie directly? Should I reach out to Forager directly? I think strategically, it's really smart to start at the Forager level. And there is no harm in reaching out to the category manager either. with an asterisk knowing that they might literally respond to you and say, keep working with the forger, right? But I'm glad to have heard about your brand and let's keep the conversation going as a collective. So that forger is really going to be a great resource for all sorts of the needs that a brand has. Now, there's one caveat, which is that If a brand is heavily resourced, capable of scaling into all stores because of said resources, and the brand is fully baked, and what I mean by that is the concept is dialed, the branding is dialed, the team is dialed, and they are ready to go. That is a very rare, unique situation that can happen. And what that does involve, though, is circling everyone in at the beginning for us to make a collective decision about what the right path is.
[00:21:58] Melissa Traverse: So I know that team structure is something that's constantly evolving for all retailers. Can you help us understand what the local forager team looks like? You know, maybe how many of them there are and how they relate to the current Whole Foods Market regional structure?
[00:22:16] Charlie New: The local team has continued to evolve just like our org. And what you would want to know is there are seven foragers that cover the regional map. So it does not follow the legacy map. And I know there's a lot to unpack there, nor does it follow the regional, the operation regions either. It is actually broken out a bit differently. But the high level takeaway is that they manage a segment of the country. And a good example of this would be Patrick Wyman, for example. is responsible for California and Hawaii. So you can think about it from those terms. And then secondarily, and there's a little asterisk here, there are two specialty foragers. And this is where we sort of flip the script a little bit, and they actually manage the entire country. So they are not regionally focused. They are focused on exciting cheeses and wines and charcuterie and that type of thing. And then we also have the LEAP team, which manages the LEAP program. So they are on the same team and they have a very big job to do with that program. It's very exciting.
[00:23:42] Melissa Traverse: Is there a place in the Whole Foods Market portal where a brand could find that information and figure out who the right person to reach out to is?
[00:23:52] Charlie New: There is, yes. So the good news is that the portal is a wealth of information for this type of thing. And that's generally speaking where I tend to point people in that direction so they can be equipped with all the info they need at the portal.
[00:24:12] Melissa Traverse: All right, so you just talked about LEAP, which is certainly probably Whole Foods Market's most exciting program for emerging brands. How does the LEAP program fit into Whole Foods Market's strategy for discovering and developing emerging brands? And then also what's the difference between early growth and the on the verge tracks? As I understand it, those are two separate tracks.
[00:24:37] Charlie New: So the LEAP program is something that I am a part of and really every merchant is a part of. It's a total organization within our center store. And so it is an amazing opportunity, like you said, for emerging brands to shoot their shot at Whole Foods and apply with admittedly a really large cohort of founders for the potential to work directly with us. So I think last application around there was 2000 different brands that applied. So a lot. which is amazing and very encouraging because that shows you how much innovation is really out there and how hard the brands that are selected to go through the program had to work to be a part of it. The brand cohort is much smaller than 2000. And so what this entails is, like you said, there's two tracks, there's On The Verge and then there's Emerging. And the emerging track is for brands that are currently not working with Whole Foods yet. So not in not in our retail tours. And the on the verge track is for brands that are currently selling at Whole Foods and have had. Success and success can look like lots of different things, but we're really encouraged by their performance. and we want to offer them secondary support. And so each brand cohort is going to need a different collection of tools, engagement, advice, and each cohort is specifically designed for kind of what you would imagine those different groups would need. And so if you take, for example, on the verge, that looks like regular meetings with your forger, potentially your forger and your category manager to talk about how you're performing to offer Intel on Should you promote at this time? What did that promotion do for your velocities? What are velocities that we expect for this category? How might you deploy some of the capital that you have to use for marketing? And it's just about mentorship. It's about community and it's about really taking the expertise of many, many minds across different parts of the organization to give you the behind the door advice.
[00:27:32] Melissa Traverse: So for those 2000 brand submissions, I'm sure that you saw all stages of development, some that were retail ready, and then some that definitely weren't. What milestones tell you that a brand is truly retail ready? And then what are some of the red flags that tell you maybe they're not ready?
[00:27:52] Charlie New: Sure. This is one of my favorite questions actually, because I think it's really important and The answer that I think everyone could give who sits in my seat might look slightly different, but there's going to be consensus for sure. I would tell you starting out that the most important thing is, is this person generally aware of what they are about to do? I know that seems so obvious, but it actually isn't. And we meet people from every walk of life. I mean, people from all over the world, people at different stages of their founder journey, of their entrepreneurial journey. We meet people who are on their second or third round of successful brands. And we meet people who came up with something in the middle of their college dorm room. And you want to make sure that the awareness exists about what it takes to scale. in terms of cost, operationally, from a team, from a co-manufacturer standpoint. An example of a question would be, have you secured line time with your co-manufacturer? And they might not have. And so that is something that you have a level of responsibility when you move brands forward to not get them over their skis and to sort of have a litmus test of where are you on a scale of awareness of what you're shooting for. So that's the biggest one first. And then I think secondarily, it is about whether or not the brand has a strong concept and understanding of their brand identity. Oftentimes you meet brands who are trying to do too much. And so they are, and again, I'm just making stuff up over here. They are wanting to be the leading fiber beverage while simultaneously being a caffeine beverage while simultaneous, like a caffeine occasion for you in the morning. But also they want to launch a separate line that is in the dairy aisle for protein beverages. And you go, you see that more than you would think and you go, you're trying to grab for too many things. And right now I want you to focus on who you want to be and how you want to tell your story very clearly and why you have a right to win in this space, why you think you will win and what your goals are. And so if the brand is not quite able to articulate who they are and what their identity is, that means that you're going to have to do it for them. And that isn't always the easiest job. So in both of those two buckets, the green flags look like We're operationally savvy and we know what we're getting into. We're prepared for that. And Green and Flyers look like we've come to you with a really strong understanding of our brand concept and who we are. And most of all, who is our customer? Sometimes in this CPG world, I find that, and this is probably every industry, We are a community of people who do this all day long. And sometimes we forget about the average person who's picking up our products. And so I often ask, who is this for? And do you know who it's for? Because if there are not enough of those people, we're not off to a good start. But if I know who this is for and you know who this is for, and we can each name a friend, a cousin, an aunt, an old colleague who wants this, we're off to a great start. So, it's a lot about that. And really, I could go on and on about this because it's so important in what I do. Those are good jumping off points.
[00:32:40] Melissa Traverse: This is a question from someone in our community who has a culturally centered brand. And I thought it was a really good one. She wanted to know what separates the brands who do sort of have a cultural focus. I'm thinking of Nguyen Coffee, for example. What separates a brand like that who is able to scale nationally from a brand that might be more of a specialty product and is, you know, has a smaller scale, has a smaller audience, and obviously has a limited consumer base. What do you see in the brands that are able to start from a cultural platform and then be able to appeal to people across the country, whether it's New York City, LA, or someone in Minnesota? What do you think? Do you have any tips for brands who do have that sort of culturally centric value proposition? and how they can expand that to appeal to people across the country?
[00:33:42] Charlie New: This is such a delicate one and it's such a personal one. And when I say personal, I mean, not personal to me, but personal to every founder who wants to tell their story. And actually, this is very timely because I was in an elite meeting where someone was sharing with me their heritage story. and what it meant to them. And it was not necessarily front and center on their packaging. And you really had to reach to be able to find it. And it was their position that they did not want to lead with that because it felt too personal for them. And so I want to start from that place specifically because I want to make sure to say that for anyone who's hearing this and thinking about their heritage, their story, their community, and how do I tell that story, I want to make sure to encourage everyone to say you need to think first about what's right for you. And don't let anyone tell you that that's how you have to sell your product if that doesn't feel right to you. But let's start from the idea that it does, right? Just again, making something up. You have a Filipino heritage and you want to share your culinary traditions through beverage and food. with the world. If that's where we're starting from, then I think the advice there is, it's challenging because you have to figure out a way to invite people into something that they might not be familiar with. And figuring out how to do that isn't always easy. But ultimately, we're in a really exciting time in the food and beverage world where people are really eager to have new experiences. And you see that across the board in nearly every category. They are wanting to, when they can't get on a plane and go go have a traditional meal from Oaxaca in Mexico or they can't get on a plane and get to Stockholm, right? they still want those experiences and they want to be able to participate in parts of the world and parts of your story that might be hard for them to access. And so it really becomes a question. I think this is key. It's a question of, do you want to share this experience with everyone? and welcome all customers in, or are you creating a product that is for your community only? And by that, I mean, it doesn't need to speak to everyone. It's not for them. And that is the point. And those are really important pieces of defining how to approach this. And a good example of this would be we have kosher offerings in our store. And that doesn't necessarily need to be for everyone, but it still needs to be present. And we could go down the list and think about all of those different examples. That's just a single one. So telling your story in a way that welcomes people in to an experience is tricky, but Whole Foods is certainly the right place to do it.
[00:37:44] Melissa Traverse: So like you just said, the demand for having a new experience in food and beverage is high, maybe higher than ever before. That's certainly one of the trends that we're seeing at BevNET. Another trend that we just see over and over and over again, and I'm sure you do too, is functionality. Functional beverages have exploded, but so have the claims certainly. I'm curious to see what you're seeing in trends in functional beverage and what separates the functional beverages that can really succeed and scale across the country and appeal to the mass consumers versus the ones that maybe get caught in that in between of, what does this do for me? Why do I need this? What do you think about that?
[00:38:36] Charlie New: Yes. how I'm thinking about categories constantly. And it's particularly relevant currently to nearly every single beverage category. In fact, I might say that the lines are blurring and becoming challenging to figure out where they are in terms of what is a category anymore and what belongs where because of the functionality piece. So, Let's talk about what it means to succeed in the functional space. First and foremost, it comes back to something I said earlier, which is that you can be everything to everyone. Unless you literally figure out scientifically how to create something like that, and I don't think anyone has as of late, you are not willing to become the health elixir for all things that a human being needs. And so you want to decide what is the main proposition of your functionality and articulate that exceptionally well. As in very clear, almost slap shoe in the face clear, right?
[00:39:52] Melissa Traverse: And so I don't mean to cut you off, but do you have any examples of a beverage that you feel like has done that really well in the functional space?
[00:40:00] Charlie New: I would say someone else is having a good bit of success is like Trip, for example, where they just picked one thing to be. And they didn't try to give you your entire health proposition. And it's about calming down, essentially. It literally says that on the package. They've done that with their naming convention. They've done that with their packaging. And it's not hard to tell what they're trying to communicate to you. And so. I think. That's the key, finding that lane and sticking in it, and then this is the second part, it's harder. When it comes to health, really across any act of being healthy, we all struggle with habit forming. We wish that we didn't. No person doesn't wish that they didn't struggle sometimes with being healthy in whatever version that looks like for them. That could be keeping an exercise routine or drinking enough water or drinking less caffeine. It goes on and on and on. And so when it comes to functionality, does your product offer something that would warrant a repeat occasion. As in, this is something I feel like I need in my regular routine. A great example of this that's not functional, well, technically it is functional, but we don't call it that, is cold brew. Cold brew, we don't think of it as functional because it doesn't have a bunch of claims on the front, but it is functional in the sense that we drink it in times of need to feel a little sharper and more awake. And it's something that many people reach for every single day. And so when you think about what you're offering from a functional standpoint, ask yourself, does someone really need this? And why that matters is most of all, because if they don't, they're going to try it out of curiosity, because we are, as we just discussed, wanting to have new experiences and we're curious customers. but they may not need it and their purchase occasion was actually just to try it. They want to know what that, you know, that four stacks of functionality with a pina colada flavor profile, you know, tastes like. And that's the end of that customer journey with your product. So I would really encourage people to think about it from that lens of Does someone need this? And who? And are there enough of them? And also... If this need exists, what does the competition look like and how they might be getting it otherwise, right? It feels like your competition might be sitting right in aisle with you. But if you're making a protein beverage, maybe your true competition is over in the whole body aisle. Right. So that's something to think about as well. Like, are you trying to Take, and this is just something I could talk about forever. Are you trying to take something that might be somewhat inconvenient and then make it convenient, right? Making a protein shake if you're drinking one every single day, you might have to remember to bring your little scoop to work and clean the Vitamix and on and on and on. So have we solved for something? So there's lots of different ways of thinking about this.
[00:44:05] Melissa Traverse: I think your cold brew example is right on. I always think of caffeine and alcohol as being sort of like the two original functional ingredients in beverage. My last question for you is, if you personally were launching a CPG brand tomorrow with your own money, What would you invest more money in than maybe you see a lot of other brands invest in? And what would you spend a lot less on understanding that your goal is to scale nationally and then sell it for $1.5 billion?
[00:44:42] Charlie New: This is such a good question. I would invest in my team. I know that seems... I'm expecting people wouldn't imagine that's what I would say, but the team that you have is essential to understanding all of the pitfalls that you could. They are the people who will either let you step in or see that you are about to and not let that happen. And the reality of our industry is that it's so complex. everything from what distributor network you're choosing to what fees might be associated with that to not knowing about free fill at all. Or now I do because this person's on my team. What are some of the challenges of potentially what happens when your planned demand didn't get loaded like you had thought it would for the biggest promotional event you're supposed to have in the year. These individuals with their subject matter expertise are going to either make you a well-oiled machine or you're going to be persistently sort of trial and erroring. They'll prevent you from the trial and error. You know, that's something that I see as an opportunity all the time. I would hire the best human beings I can find and I would treat them really well. And I would build a culture where people want to work at my company and feel like a part of it. So that's a biggie.
[00:46:34] Melissa Traverse: Well, that certainly sounds like a formula for success to me. I can't thank you enough. Charlie New, Global Category Merchant for Refrigerated Beverages at Whole Foods Market. It is always a pleasure to work with you here at BevNET CBG Media. And I thank you so much for joining the Non-Based Podcast.
[00:46:55] Charlie New: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a joy.
[00:46:59] Melissa Traverse: For everybody in the audience, thank you for tuning in, and we will see you next time. That concludes another episode of the Nombase podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review and follow us on your listening platform of choice. You can also watch and listen to past episodes on Nombase.com, and don't forget to join our Nombase Slack at slack.BevNET.com for company updates, industry networking, and community discussions. See you next time.
