Hello, and thank you for joining us.I am Melissa Travers, Director of Community here at BevNET & NOSH, welcoming you to The Nombase Podcast.Be sure to check out nombase.com, BevNET's platform for the CPG community, featuring our partner directory, job board, press release hub, and of course, this very podcast, which brings us all together today.Today's episode is all about one of nature's most underrated powerhouses, maple.And no, we're not talking about maple syrup.Maple is quickly becoming a sought after ingredient in food and beverage, thanks to the formulation-friendly flavor, functional benefits, and an incredible story rooted in true sustainability.We're joined by one expert in two innovative beverage brands who are bringing maple into the spotlight.First is Mike Farrell, co-founder of The Forest Farmers, a visionary company producing the world's most diverse range of tree-based syrups from maple and birch to beech and walnut.With a Ph.D.in forestry from Cornell, Mike spent over a decade directing Cornell's E-Line Forest, where he helped thousands of sugar makers and led groundbreaking research into tree-based SAPs.Now he's leading the forest farmers with a mission to steward wild forests through the responsible harvesting from SAPs and specialty products.Also joining the conversation are two outstanding beverage brands.We have Michael D.Ham of Wild Orchard Tea and Susan Hartman, co-founder of Recoup Beverage, to talk about how maple is making its mark in their beverage brands.Thank you all so much for joining us.I'm super excited about this topic.I learned so much and I'm so excited for our audience to do the same.Michael Farrell, let's please start with you.Can you tell us a little bit about your role at The Forest Farmers?What brought you there and what you do over there and what you're stewarding?Yes.Thanks for having me on today, Melissa.This is a great, exciting topic to be discussing and give you a little bit of background.I helped start The Forest Farmers about 10 years ago with two business partners.I had been running the Maple Research Center for Cornell and was doing a little bit of consulting on the side.I hit it off with one of my partners.We had great opportunities.Eight years ago, I decided to give up my position with Cornell to focus on developing the forest farmers full-time.We now have 10,000 acres of beautiful diverse forests in New York and Vermont.I'm at our Vermont Sugar House right now.You can see one of our evaporators in the background.That's what all the stainless steel is.While we do make a lot of maple syrup, a lot of great delicious maple syrup, what we're talking about today is the sap that goes into making that syrup.That's the only ingredient for maple syrup, but also that's what I'm drinking right now.This is a glass of maple sap.I also have a glass of birch sap right next to me as well, because now is basically the time of the year where we're ending maple season and starting the birch harvest.We do about 150,000 maple trees that we tap every year, and close to about 45,000 birch trees.Most of it goes to syrup, but increasingly more and more of it is going as the base for beverages, which I'm glad to have two of our partners with Recoup and Wild Orchard, they use the maple sap as the base and talk all about what we're doing and all the benefits today.And is it tapping sugaring season now or are we just past that New England?So the maple season is just wrapping up.We start tapping here in January and February, we get all the taps in and then most of the flow happens all throughout March and usually ends up sometime between April 15th and 20th or so, when you start to get a lot warmer and you're not getting the freezing nights anymore.So, it's always sad to see the maple season end, but it comes around every year and we had a great harvest this year, collected over a million gallons of maple sap in Vermont and about two million gallons in New York.Wow, that's amazing.And then when the season's over, it's spring, so everybody wins.You held up what almost looked like a glass of water and you said that that was the maple sap.Can you explain to our audience what the different formats are and that maple sap, for example, is that how we would typically, is it maple water?Is it the same thing?Yeah, so because there's no really category for sap in the beverage market.So maple syrup producers refer to the liquid that comes out of the trees as sap.But when it gets sold as a beverage, it's often referred to as maple water because then it fits into the functional water category.So it is mostly water.As you can see, it looks just like water.There's a little bit of sugar in it.There's electrolytes, polyphenols, antioxidants, all this good stuff that's in the sap of the tree.This sap is what is bringing these trees to life in the spring, and it's full of all these great plant-based compounds.We make most of it in the syrup, but my favorite format is just the sap right out of the tree.So if I'm a formulator or I'm a brand and I'm interested in using maple in my product, you either have maple water, which you just explained.And then can you talk a little bit about the concentrated sap?We invested in the technology to be able to concentrate the sap with reverse osmosis, ultra filter it to remove any bacteria or yeast, and then concentrate it further through a vacuum evaporation to get it to a higher BRICS level to make a shelf stable.And then you can dilute it back down to the original BRICS level without any change in flavor, appearance or chemistry from raw sap.You can then use the maple sap year round that way in formulation.And both of our brands here are using it in each way.So it really is a perfect lineup here.Before we chat with the brands to find out how they're using it and how it's going, can you explain the sustainability aspect of what you're doing?I think people talk so much about what they're doing from a sustainability perspective, but this stood out to me as something that is just really clearly doing something great for the forest and for all of the land around it.So could you just talk a little bit about that?For sure, yeah.I mean, that's one of the great things about it is that we are collecting this sap from wild forests that get to do all the benefits of forests do with clean air, clean water, wildlife habitat, carbon sequestration, all the recreational opportunities, the beauty in the fall with the fall colors, all these great things about these maple forests in the Northeast.We bought our land from timber companies that had...We purchased 10,000 acres and over 25% of that had already been harvested pretty heavily and a lot of it was going to be harvested if we didn't buy it because the maple is very valuable for the timber.By acquiring this land, we put conservation easements on it so we wouldn't develop it and the fact that we're collecting the sap every year, we're able to maintain those healthy, mature forests as healthy forests.We just take a little bit of the sap.The trees grow just as fast.They live just as long and therefore we're helping to protect the forest by collecting the sap from them every year.Some people worry about, oh, you're stealing the sap out of the tree.Really it's not an impact on the tree.The best way to save these trees is to collect the sap.You're not depleting anything.It's quite the reverse.You're literally keeping the forest alive by tapping this ingredient which I think is amazing.Recycling is a hot button issue.Folks are confused about which packaging formats are the most sustainable.But this is such a clear way to communicate to people that you're doing something good.Thank you so much.That was great, Mike.Why don't we move on to you, Michael Ham.Can you tell us a little bit about Wild Orchard, a little bit about your brand story and the products themselves?Sure.First of all, thanks for having me.It's a pleasure.At Wild Orchard, we grow our teas on our 1,000 acre farm on Jeju Island.If you haven't heard of it, it's in South Korea.At Wild Orchard, we really believe that how our tea is grown matters just as much as how it tastes.We're really on a mission to doing both at the highest level.Our artists in loose leaf compostable tea bags, we have matcha that can be found at the top-rated Michelin restaurant and spa in the country.We're in retailers like Whole Foods and Sprouts and even the Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles locker room.So we're gaining some momentum with our ready-to-drink matcha latte line that we're going to talk about today.We really wanted to bring that same quality and purpose into a more convenient format.And did I see a black matcha and a green matcha on social media just recently?We do have both and black matcha is new because most people never heard of it, but it's ground from our black tea leaf.And can folks find these products out there or are they still in launch mode?Yeah.Yeah.Our RTDs, we're just working on launching it.Our main production run this summer, but our tea bags are loose leaf.They are in the places that I mentioned before, mostly in Whole Foods and Sprouts.Well, I certainly can't wait to try it.What's the form of maple that you're using in the ready to drink product?We use the maple water, as Mike mentioned, in our RTD matcha latte.It acts both as a natural hydrator and a subtle sweetener because it offsets the bitterness of the matcha.If you all have a chance to taste it soon, it's really clean, refreshing, incredibly functional as well, which is why we use it.What were some of the other ingredients that you were thinking about before you finally settled on maple?Well, we always thought of maple because we used it in Korea at the farm.But while we were formulating or thinking about how to launch RTDs, we did think about Stevia or Agave, but they were really secondary options.Maple was always the top.You just mentioned its use in Korea and the Korean aspect of maple, could you talk about that and share that story?It's such a beautiful story.It is because most people don't know, and I didn't know until a few years ago.But in Korea, maple sap is called goro-se, and it's been used as a health clinic for over a thousand years.So there's a long history on our farm where actually we've combined goro-se with our tea to create concentrated tea shots before, and that's something that we're going to come out with in the future.But that traditional use deeply influenced our decision to use maple water in our matcha line.And it's interesting because it really gave us a bridge between the ancient health practices in Korea and then modern local sourcing in New York, where our US headquarters is based.So it's a great fit.This is maybe embarrassing, but I always thought of maple as being sort of a New England centric product, but of course, it has an incredibly long history across the world.Is that something that like you've heard other folks like, you know, Korean folks or other folks kind of talk about as something that people used to know about and still maybe know about?How much of that history has carried over?Well, that's the thing.I don't think the young people in Korea really know.When we talk about Maple Coro, a lot of people don't know about the history within Korea.So that's why I think when with the Korean tea, regenerative milk from California, the maple water from New York, I think there's a great story to share there.How do you share that story with consumers?I mean, most of it, Wild Orchard, we started Wild Orchard as a mission to elevate people's health.So it really starts with the functional benefits of maple water.But regenerative farming, we're first tea farm to get regenerative organic certification in the world.So aside from the health message, there's the sustainability message.So once again, maple water is a perfect fit because of its functional benefits.But also, as Mike mentioned, where he's prevented 10,000 acres from being clear cut.The amount of damage to the ecology of the area, environmental consciousness of our consumers, our young people today, I think it's core in our storytelling and really building that trust.Well, we'll dig in a little bit more to customer perception and the best way to go about marketing this product to consumers.But certainly, Susan from Recoup, it's so great to have you.You're the new Beverage Showdown winner this past winter.So huge congratulations to you.Again, you did such a fabulous job.And the beverage is just so delicious, of course.And maple was actually kind of a key part of your pitch from what I remember.Is that right?Yes.It is our base ingredient.It is a key functional ingredient for us.So our positioning is gut-healthy hydration.The two parts of that are coming from our key ingredients, the maple tree water delivering those electrolytes as well as antioxidants.And then the gut health part comes from a functional dose of ginger and prebiotic fiber.So really maple tree water is the majority of our beverage.And when we were getting ready for the show, we were talking a little bit about some of the other ingredients that could have stood in for maple water.I think you mentioned that, for example, coconut water would have been another option.But why did you go with maple water?So my co-founder actually, when he was starting to do this research, he was inspired by his own personal story.So spent the first three years of his life in the hospital, went through 10 major surgeries before he was 12, and actually was working in the hospital that he grew up in, working with kids who were kind of going through a lot of the same issues and started to look into the functional benefits of ginger.So he knew that there was amazing clinical research behind ginger, and then what could you pair it with that would be hydrating?So he started to research plant-based waters and actually found Michael, Mike in 2016, and started driving up to Lake Placid and buying buckets of maple sap from Mike to do this initial formulation.So we really started as a maple tree water beverage from the beginning, and part of the reason why coconut water never appealed to us is, one, it has a polarizing taste.You either like it or you don't, whereas maple tree water is very subtle, there's almost no flavor to it.And then it's harvested on the other side of the world, oftentimes by at-risk communities.Forests are clear-cut to plant coconut palms.If you compare a maple tree from a carbon footprint to a coconut palm, maple trees capture around 2,000 tons of carbon a year, one single tree.A coconut palm captures about five, and it's often the product is actually shipped over across the world.So huge carbon footprint on coconut water versus maple tree water, which is just this amazing local ingredient that we've been able to develop and work with.Student athletes are shaping beverage culture and getting new consumers into retailers.See how in 98 Strong's Gen Z Workshop at BevNET Live, New York City, June 11th at 1030 a.m.Register at bevnetlive.com.When I think of recoup, I just think of a really delicious beverage that I want to drink.But certainly it sounds like the sustainability aspect is a big part of it.Was sustainability one of the kind of founding principles of recoup?Or is that just sort of like a set of values that you and your team have?It was always in our set of values and how we wanted to build the business.For me, if I'm going to put hundreds of thousands of units of something out into the world, I want it to have a positive impact.And so it's always been a piece of our vision for how we want to create the brand.And Michael Ham, I don't know if I asked you this or not, but how did you come across Mike Farrell in all of the work that he's doing at The Forest Farmers?It was a funny story, actually.So Mike, we were at the Fancy Food Show June of 2023 here in New York City.Mike was traveling by train down from upstate New York, and he was listening to the Regen Brands Podcast, happened to be my episode, so he was listening.And then he came to the Fancy Food Show and that's where we met.After hearing his explanation of how it's harvested, a lot of the things we learned today, nutritional value, environmental benefits, it like totally clicked.We were still a ways away from developing our RTD, but it was like, once we do that, we're going to use maple.So it was really an easy decision for us.Excellent.Mike, this is all great information.It just makes me more excited about maple as an ingredient.I know that you work very closely with your customers.Can you tell us a little bit about how you see Wild Orchard and Recoup using maple in their products, like from a flavor perspective, from a marketing perspective, just to get an outside view?For sure.Recoup and Wild Orchard are two of the best new beverage brands out there.Obviously, they're the ones winning all the competitions at BevNET and Expo West.I was very fortunate to have connected with them.Some of the benefits that Susan mentioned with maple water is that neutral taste.I think that's important for people to realize because, for instance, Recoup is doing a lot of other great flavors in their gut-healthy hydration.The maple doesn't impact that.It provides subtle sweetness as part of the hydration because there is a little bit of sugar in the maple sap.People should really understand that maple water is completely different than maple syrup.When people hear maple, they almost automatically think syrup.People love pouring, and for good reason, pouring syrup on their pancakes and waffles and all that stuff, but people generally don't think about just drinking syrup, right?Okay.And so maple syrup also has the distinct flavor because it's been boiled for so long.There's a caramelization process called the Maillard reaction where you take that sucrose and caramelize it and develop that maple flavor and evaporate it when you're boiling.But to separate out of the tree, there's no maple flavor whatsoever.It's just a little hint of sweetness from the sucrose naturally occurring in the tree.And that little bit of hint of sweetness is naturally occurring sugar.So it doesn't count as added sugars on the label.On the nutrition factor panel, there's still some sugar.It's a little bit of sugar in there, but it's not added sugar.So for customers that, you know, there's a lot of people out there looking for stuff with no added sugar when you use maple sap as base, or birch sap as well, that has even less sugar.You can get that great base ingredient, a little bit of sweetness, and no added sugar, and Recoup and, you know, Wild Orchard are doing a great job with that.Yeah, I'll chime in on that, is we, to be able to have no added sugar, and we don't use any stevia or any other sweeteners, is a really powerful claim and is a huge differentiator for us, especially in the gut health space.And it's only able to do that because of the maple tree water.And Susan, in the formulation process, how much tinkering around was there with the maple aspect?Or was it just, you know, you wanted to use maple sap, which is basically maple water, and you did.I mean, so CWOD started this before I met him.We both connected through Cornell, and that's how he connected with Mike.But he basically was mixing the sap with all these different ingredients in a juicer at home, taking those to friends, having people try different formulations.And so when I met him, he was in a non-shelf stable product, juice product that had maple as the base, but then a few different flavors.And through the years, we have reformulated.We are now a sparkling version in a can that's shelf stable, but the maple has been fairly consistent.We've played around a little bit with the bricks, which is the sugar levels, but that's been in our brand from the beginning, really.And certainly, you know, any consumer would be happy to consume the product because, you know, no added sugar, it's low in sugar overall.Is there a recovery aspect to your consumer base who may be drinking the product because they know it's also it has electrolytes in it, aids in recovery?For sure.And that's a lot of people.We used to have Fixer Mixer Wellness Elixir on the on the label.And a lot of people either say to me, oh, this would be great for a hangover or this would be a great cocktail.So we can solve the problem on both ends.It definitely from the electrolyte aspect just helps you with your gut health.So if you are just like your legs don't work well after running a lot, you need electrolytes for your muscles to function.And that's true of the muscles in your digestive system as well.So having the electrolytes with the gut health, like the fiber and the ginger is actually an amazing combination.And I'm surprised that we're the only ones doing that.Absolutely.Michael Ham, how about your consumers?And again, I'm so excited to try the product.I'm just chomping at the bet.For your consumers, do you think the recovery aspect will be part of what draws them in?I mean, certainly just the flavor of the matcha itself.But how do you see that playing out?So it'll be interesting.We're still in the throes of all this, getting consumer feedback.But I think it's more than recovery, lattes and matcha.It's a very uptrending product because there's a global shortage now.But it's because of the antioxidants.And when you bring it in in any format, whether it's tea or matcha, it's repairing the cells.It's giving you calm focus along with the sustained energy, not the spikes and the crashes.So the interplay between maple with our RTD is really around the flavor.So matcha with tea, there's a bit of bitterness to it.And so when you blend the maple water with the A2 milk that we use in our RTDs, as well as our matcha, just results in a more smooth, well-rounded flavor.So everything gets balanced out and nothing is overpowering.And there's obviously nothing artificial.So all those points hit to the consumer who's looking nutrient-dense, functional, and what Susan and Siwaad are doing with Recoup and what we're doing with Wild Orchard.I think it hits on all of those major points for one of the highest quality drinks that you can find anywhere on the market.So you use maple sap as a base.Are you adding any other sweetener to the matcha?No.So it's only three ingredients.It's our matcha, it's our A2 milk, gut-friendly, and then it's the maple water.We do use acacia gum to make sure the matcha doesn't settle too much on the ground, but it's just that.And then we only have eight grams.And we did our first prototype run, and we launched it at Expo West.We're in the middle of getting feedback.We have like hundreds of feedback forms already.A lot of the feedback says even that eight grams, they think the sweetness level is perfect or even too much.So we're thinking of dropping it even to like the six or seven gram level, which is really sweet spot for someone who's looking for a healthy drink, not too sweet.We get so many beverages at BevNET and there are so many brands that use non-nutritive sweeteners well, Monk Fruits, Stevia, but it's also really easy to get that wrong.So to be able to use a quality ingredient like maple water and not have to worry about any of that because those flavors are polarizing must be a real benefit.Definitely.I mean, early on, even before we met Mike, we did consider cane sugar, but then, you know, so many RTDs rely on cane sugar or added flavors, like you mentioned, to cover the bitterness of something like matcha.But at the end, after we met Mike, we were like, no, we got to go the total opposite route.We got to let the matcha and milk shine.And so that's why maple water, it adds just enough like natural sweetness, and it doesn't mask the core ingredients or compromises our integrity.So it's really the perfect fit.I was going to say that's the same feedback we get.Often when I hand people a can, they say, oh, I bet there's stevia in here.And I actually have it on the back of the can, no stevia.Because it's just, they're ubiquitous in functional beverage.And a lot of people tell me they get migraines or they just don't like the bitterness.So to be able to not use those things is a huge advantage.And as to what Michael was saying, it just is a nice flavor, gives you a subtle sweetness.And so people really like recoup for being subtly sweet and tasting like the juices that are in there and like the ginger, not like some fake oversweet product.Mike, we've talked a little bit about the functionality of maple.Can you share with us from your perspective how that plays into maple as an ingredient?One of the things, you know, I love Michael telling the story about garrise from Korea.You can drink maple sap by itself just as it is, right?And it tastes good.I mean, I love it, but there's not a lot of flavor to it.And so it is really ideal when you use it as the base for something like recouping while the orchard are doing.The reason why it's called garrise, what that means, it's the tree that is good for the bones.That's the Korean meaning of that.And there's this legend about a monk that was meditating for so long and couldn't get up.And he was underneath a maple tree and he went to go stand up, broke the branch and the branch started dripping the sap.He could drink it and get up because, I mean, obviously, that's a made up story, but that's the legend behind it.But what's in there, the electrolytes that are there, it's mostly calcium and magnesium.Those are the top two minerals that you find in the maple sap.Remember that the trees are just taking up groundwater that has all these minerals and it's concentrating in the tree and picking up the sugars that are stored in the tree from photosynthesis that the tree is doing.So that's how you're getting this functional aspect of the maple sap, how it's more than just the sugar.I mean, a combination of calcium and magnesium is one certainly you can find in many health food stores.And I see magnesium as an ingredient rising in popularity.Recess has their zero-proof magnesium line.There are plenty of sleep aids that use magnesium.I see it showing up more and more.Susan and Michael, the magnesium aspect of maple, does that come into play at all when you're chatting with consumers?Yes, for sure.So I don't have my pitch deck up, but I have a stat on increase of magnesium growth.I think it's around 30 percent right now.So there is a lot of consumer interest, a lot of just building understanding of it's good for muscle recovery, it's good for sleep, it's helpful in so many ways.And so that is one of the electrolytes that is on our nutrition facts, and people are really excited to see.So definitely building consumer awareness and desire for it.Yeah, there's definitely more awareness.The deficiency of minerals in our diet, the food that we're 70% of our average, the diet average diet in the US now is comprised of ultra processed foods.You're not going to get these vital electrolytes, minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.So that's, it takes a bit of education.But once once we tell people what it does, and it's sourced from the cleanest regenerative farms or forests, then I think people get it pretty quickly.And Recoup and Wild Orchard, we're just trying to build that knowledge, that education so people can benefit from it.And Michael, how do you call out maple on the label of the cans?Oh, we just put maple water on the ingredient panel.So pretty simple.And it speaks for itself.Yeah, yeah, speak for itself.But we do a lot of demos at Whole Foods, as Recoup does.Those are the perfect opportunities to educate.But that's why things like this, inviting us to the podcast is so great.It allows us to amplify the benefits you get from maple water.And when your team is doing those demos at Whole Foods Market, how do they, what do they say to consumers?Do they lead with sustainability?Do they lead with functionality?Do they lead with no added sugar?Where do you start?So after doing hundreds of demos, we realized, and Susan, I'm curious to hear what you think or what you say, but it has to lead with flavor.People are not going to buy something that doesn't taste good no matter how good it is.So we're all about creating the most flavorful teas without being artificial, right?Without being artificial, adding that functionality.And then we have our regenerative story, because our teas are grown in healthy soil, the animals are taken care of as anyone would want, and we take care of our farmers, farm worker fairness.So our teas are grown in an environment where you actually want all your food to grow, where the animals, the pollinators, the workers, the soil is all at a high priority.So once people taste it, you get them to understand why it tastes that way, because it's grown the right way.That's when you can convert them into your avid customers.Yes.We did a three-month pilot at Sprouts nationally October to December, so we got a lot of great feedback during that.And we're actually launching nationally in Sprouts May 5th.So that will be just an amazing opportunity for us to connect with a much wider base.But through all of our demos, I agree, flavor is important.No added sugar is definitely something that I call out.Ginger for us is, you know, that's a good hook to bring people into the brand because people know it, they know it's good for them and chances are they like it, especially if they're in our target market.And so the maple tree water, we really, we kind of have to bring them in with those other hooks.And then you can tell the story.And it's then they're really connecting with the brand and with the positive impact.So we're the first regenerative organic certified beverage brand, you know, across our portfolio.For the people who know what that is, that's hugely impactful.And for the people who don't, they're interested in learning more and really connecting with that.So it's, it's not the thing that you can lead with on front of CAN, but it is on the, in our storytelling, it's on the back of the packaging, and it's the sort of thing that really connects people and keeps them loyal once they're in.Mike, can you explain which certifications The Forest Farmers has on their maple products?I hear regenerative, it's, it's regenerative certified?Yeah, regenerative organic certified.So we are, we're the first and only that I know of company that has gotten maple and birch sap regenerative organic certified.We did that three years ago.You know, regenerative agriculture is one of the fastest growing and, you know, becoming more and more important in both consumers and from the agricultural farming side as well.And there's different types of regenerative certifications.We went with regenerative organic because we're already USDA organic.And so the regenerative organic is the one that requires you to be organic.And then the regenerative organic is a step, step above that.It's, you have to take your organic certification to, to a higher level.And it was, it started by companies like Patagonia and Dr.Bronner's that, you know, didn't feel the USDA organic was living up to what it needed to.And so the standards are much higher for regenerative organic.And there's a lot of great brands out there that are selling regenerative organic products.We you know, we supply, you know, Recoup and Wild Orchard, obviously with the Mabel Safman and then a lot of other companies with maple syrup and maple sugar that goes into other products that they're doing.Because when you do a, when you have that regenerative organic certification, you have to have, I think it's at least 95% of your products in there that are ROC certified.And I'll just take this opportunity to say one more time, we're not talking about maple syrup, it's maple sap.Michael, can you hold up that glass of maple sap again?Yeah, so yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, the sap is just like water, there's just a little bit of sugar in here.And then those, you know, the electrolytes, the antioxidants, polyphenols, all that other stuff that we are mentioning as well.But they're in pretty low concentrations because, as you can see, it is just like water.I'm getting thirsty.See, that was just cruel.But you can't have a glass of maple sap right there and not drink it.Right.Susan, not only is regenerative really important to your brand, but traceability is something that you focus on as well.All of the maple comes from New York and Vermont, where the forest is.How do you use that in your branding and your marketing?In the beginning, we were very much, we started in New York City.We were very much Northeast focused.Now, the story evolves because on a national scale, it maybe doesn't connect as much with individuals.But as someone mentioned earlier, when you think of maple, you do think of New England and you think of these pure forests.It has helped us with some of the New York-based retailers.We were in Taste of New York and some places like that because we're sourcing locally.We submitted to Whole Foods and we're chatting with them.So if you're listening Whole Foods, come talk.But I think that it's a part of who we are.Michael talked about how their purchase saved those forests from being chopped down.New England is being deforested at 65 acres a day.Even though you think of, oh, it's all built already, no, it's still vulnerable.There have been some recent administration changes that are making forests even more vulnerable.So I think it's important just preserving that area and being really connected with the land.That's an excellent point.I mean, I think everyone's been leading into sustainability a bit, but there's no time like the present for sure.Thank you, Susan, so much for joining today.Michael Ham, thank you so much for joining.I just cannot even wait to try that product.You have such a beautiful business setup.Mike Farrell, in closing, what else would you, like our audience, to know about The Forest Farmers, about using maple as an ingredient?How do they get in touch with you?theforestfarmers.com, that's our website.There's some pretty good videos on there.Media has been interested in what we've been doing, and so we've had some good press that you can get the full tutorial through the woods, and everything we do on the website.And it's just a great, this is Earth Month, it's about to be Earth Week, sorry, yeah, Earth Week next week, Earth Day, I guess on Tuesday.And it's a little late in the season right now to go tap your own tree, but I always want people to know that if you live in the Northeast, and actually a lot of parts of the country, if you have a maple tree in your backyard, you should go tap that as well and get the sap right out of the tree.Wait a second, what do you do?How do you do that?Oh, you just drill a hole in the tree, put a spout in a bucket and collect the sap, and you can get the average tree in somebody's backyard, you're going to get anywhere from 5 to 15 gallons of sap throughout the, and you can drink with it, cook with it.It's something that is accessible.It's hard to make maple syrup, and to make maple syrup well, you have to know what you're doing.I screwed up trying to make maple syrup for a long time when I was first getting started in college.I decided just to drink the sap, and I did that for many years because I love the sap as it is.It's even better when you use it as a base for something like recoup or Wild Orchard, you get even more flavor in all the other benefits.But just the sap out of the tree itself, make your coffee or your tea with it, cook with it.It's a great product.And so, our day is coming up to go plant the maple tree for the future as well, because there's a lot of maple trees out there, but there can always be more.It was really such a pleasure getting to know you and reading about your history.You have such a strong background in forestry and truly the sustainability aspect, and saving the forest sounds like such a huge part of why you're doing what you're doing.Never mind making an amazing ingredient.Thank you so much for all of your contributions to this podcast.Thank you so much, Mike Farrell, Michael Ham, and Susan Hartman.Such a pleasure to have you.Thank you for joining.For everybody else, thank you for joining, and we'll see you next time.That concludes another episode of The Nombase Podcast.Many thanks to Nate Brescia, our Recording Engineer, Ryan Galangue, our Livestream Coordinator, and Josh Pratt, our Podcast Editor.If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review and follow us on your listening platform of choice.Want to be part of a live recording?Register at nombase.com/podcast to join the conversation.You can also watch and listen to past episodes on nombase.com, and don't forget to join our Nombase Slack at slack.bevnet.com for company updates, industry networking, and community discussions.See you next time.
